(08-12-2021, 07:48 AM)hazard Wrote: Funny, from where I'm sitting the plan was this.
1. Rile up supporters on social media with claims of a stolen election.
2. Get them down to Washington DC and point them at the US Congress.
3. Let the mob overrule Congressional certification of the election.
4. Use either the murder of Congress (because they don't overrule the election) or the fear of Congress (because they overruled the election) to maintain power.
5. ???
6. Profit.
That the plan was stupid does not not make it conspiracy.
That the people performing the illegal and violent acts were a bunch of moronic patsies does not not make them part of the conspiracy. It's entirely possible to have acted in a manner entirely in accordance with the law and be part of a conspiracy that used your actions to facilitate illegal acts and thus be liable for those acts. And these guys were not acting in accordance with the law.
And I would say 'dozens if not hundreds of Congresspeople were murdered' would be a very meaningful change, legally and politically. Keep in mind that one of the goals of the mob was to murder the vice president, which is a rather important position for continuance of government reasons if nothing else, and exact vengeance upon Congress. It would've permitted Trump to appoint a new vice president, among other things, and this time without the input of the voting public.
A murdered or ousted Congress would also be valid grounds for exercising emergency powers, which could've been used to force the military to keep Trump in power, while said murders would've also disorganized resistance to the coup.
I'm not saying that is likely to have happened. I'm saying that given the circumstances, unless nobody in a position to act acted against Trump, there would've been a coup. A coup is not just a mob storming a building, it is a combination of factors all of which lead to a specific person or group of persons being in power and nobody else being able to do something about it. There's a reason why one of the first things every coup attempt does is make sure that any military forces that can interfere are either loyal or paralyzed.
On the part of the mob? Sure, I can see that argument. On the part of the organizers and the spokespeople who riled up the mob? Not so much.
On your first point, 3 and 4 I just don't buy. If they did either, you'd get an immediate civil war. Admittedly, assuming this was pants-on-head retardation and you are right 3 and 4 were legit on the table, then I can see where the twain would meet. We already fought one civil war to make clear domestic insurrection against the lawful government does nothing except earning you the full wrath of the loyalist army, so I still lean more towards this was not logically thought out over actual conspiracy. In the absence of clear criminal proof revealed in a court of law or open public confession this was a conspiracy, I'm just going to assume massive amounts of idiocy is more likely. If said proof materializes, then I'll happily take the L on this.
As for the second one, okay, that's news to me (and anyone trying would be insane, we have the Secret Service for a reason), but assuming 3/4 from the first point were on the table for real, granted. Still, I think you place too little faith in the United States military. Trump might have been their boss at the time, but even the President cannot issue unlawful orders and expect American soldiers to carry them out. The Nazis were told "just following orders" was BS, they had moral judgment they should have exercised, same applies to American troops.
On the third point, duly noted, I'll concede that one, assuming your logic is proven to be right.