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The meaning of "mugwump"...
12-15-2025, 05:46 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2025, 05:46 PM by robkelk.)
... is, apparently, different in the UK than it is in the USA.
Cambridge Dictionary definition of mugwump:
Quote:US informal (also Mugwump)
a person who likes to be politically independent and does not support or remain loyal to any political group:
As a reporter, I've met with political groups large and small, Democratic and Republican, Green Party, mugwumps, you name it.
UK informal old-fashioned
a stupid person:
To make a fresh milk cheese at home is the simplest of processes; any mugwump can do it.
So, is "Supreme Mugwump" Dumbledore a person who by definition does not take part in partisan politics, or is he the biggest idiot?
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RE: The meaning of "mugwump"...
12-16-2025, 08:19 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2025, 08:20 AM by Bob Schroeck.)
As I recall, the Mugwumps were a political party in the United States during the early-middle 19th century. Humorist Richard Armour, in his book It All Started with Columbus, described them as dedicated fence-sitters, "with their mugs on one side and their wumps on the other" (a phrase which has stayed with me for more than 50 years, along with my memory of the associated illustration).
I suspect that's the sense in which it was intended. But given what we know of the Wizarding World... <grin>
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RE: The meaning of "mugwump"...
12-16-2025, 02:31 PM
Wekk, he's definitely not a political independent, thst's for sure. A bit hard to be, when you're the figurehead and usually direct leader for one of the main factions. "Stupid" only in the YA gwnre "all adults are useless" way maybe, but taken as a whole he's more like a minor antagonist (after Snape, Draco, Umbrage, and the Dursleys, but still beating Voldemort out of the top five for directness of action) from a story function position.
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RE: The meaning of "mugwump"...
01-19-2026, 05:24 AM
The US has the closer to the original meaning, because mugquomp is Massachusett for "war leader". In that original sense (and wizards are in general quite beyond the times), "Supreme Mugwump" would be close to "supreme allied commander" or "shogun". And indeed Dumbledore leads a faction through three different wars. But actually, it's quite clever really, because what he does is more similar to a tribal war chief than a general, because it doesn't seem like any nation of wizards keeps a standing army.
Of course, it's a open-carry society, so there's some expectation of people being armed.
I've been rereading Harry Potter this month, and the politics seem pretty odd. I'm not entirely sure what they're supposed to resemble, other than "all adults are useless". The population of wizards in Britain has to be, what, 100k? That's kind of like a city council, which can be extremely dysfunctional, but rarely this bad when they have sovereign power. Actually, it's more like Iceland (pop ~300k), or Greenland (pop ~60k), neither of which are this dumb. It seems like there's no one in the wings to take on Fudge -- essentially no loyal opposition institutionalized -- which is pretty weird. Sometimes it feels like British civil service, sometimes like a tribe, and sometimes a dictatorship.
Oh, I get it now. The Ministry of Magic is a typical African "republic" run by a dictator. Everyone is armed, every once in a while an armed insurrection starts based on bloodlines, despite lots of gold to mine everyone stays stuck in the past, Gringotts is the IMF, no one notices bribery, rules are strict only when the ruler hates you, wars involve really stupid stuff like bombing the other side of the airport the plane took off from (an actual thing that happened this century in the Congo). Literal stacks of small heads (not quite shrunken) in the Black residence. Knockturn Alley is literally right off the high street, but obviously the right bribes happen to keep that from ever being cleaned up.
So I guess Dumblydore isn't an independent. There aren't parties in the British Wizarding World. There are simply the government, and warlords. At least Albus is an official warlord.
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RE: The meaning of "mugwump"...
01-20-2026, 01:02 PM
The politics of the wizards in Harry Potter's Great Britain is basically the politics of reality with normal people.
Except even more deeply devoted to head in the sand management/classism and racism.
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RE: The meaning of "mugwump"...
01-21-2026, 04:59 PM
(01-19-2026, 05:24 AM)Labster Wrote: It seems like there's no one in the wings to take on Fudge -- essentially no loyal opposition institutionalized -- which is pretty weird. To be fair, I'm pretty sure Voldemort and his forces killed multiple Ministers of Magic before he lost a fight to a baby. This does tend to thin the herd of potential candidates. Fudge may have gotten into office because everyone qualified for the job was already dead.
(01-19-2026, 05:24 AM)Labster Wrote: So I guess Dumblydore isn't an independent. There aren't parties in the British Wizarding World. There are simply the government, and warlords. At least Albus is an official warlord. Based on what we see in the books, Dumbledore's political position comes with no actual power.
When Fudge gets Dumbledore thrown out and temporarily fills the role during Harry's trial for underage magic, he accomplishes nothing and has to stand around looking useless as the kid he just tried to railroad gets off scot-free. He's basically Mac from the original run of Night Court, announcing the items on the agenda.
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