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A question with potential implications for American 'Dane culture
A question with potential implications for American 'dane culture
#1
We have, I've noted, several places where we've outright stated that the United States became hostile to Fen. Now, is there any spillover from this
hostility to science fiction fans in general, and from there to science fiction? Does the SciFi channel find it has to move off-shore to avoid problems with
the FBI or Congress? Does Baen books get intimidating visits from national security agents who suggest that talking about Buck Rogers stuff is possibly
treasonous?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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#2
Good question...

I'm thinking that much - not all, but a noticeable fraction - of the SF community already decided to head Up before the crackdowns started. (I could see Baen Books moving their head office to The Island simply because key members of their staff wanted to live in space, for example.)

The SFWA would have to stay in the US; otherwise, they wouldn't be the Science Fiction Writers of America any more. However, the Worldcons are already Up, so the SFWA is a smaller organization than in our timeline. They might become a "target of opportunity" for the loonier parts of the government - the sort of folks who thought having the Secret Service raid Steve Jackson Games was a good idea. ("Are you now, or have you ever been, a SFWA member?")

If Disney can hang a rock over Hawai'i, then Sy-Fy can move into orbit, too. They'd probably do so in order to get a spot in geosynchronous orbit where they could broadcast their signal to all the North America cable companies at lower cost than running landlines between the relevant offices, just like all the other specialty channels.

Meanwhile, the American Fen who made it Up wouldn't be standing still for such behavior. Submitted for your consideration - an email I sent to Mal while he was on the binnacle list:

Quote:"No one would have believed in the first years of the twenty-first century that this world's information laws were being scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. Yet so vain is man, and so blinded by his vanity, that no intellectual property lawyer, up to the very end of the first decade of the twenty-first century, expressed any idea that intelligent life might have successfully disagreed with the fundamental concepts behind his life.

"The intellectual side of man already admits that creativity is an incessant struggle for expression, and it would seem that this too is the belief of the minds upon Mars. Their world is barely started in its warming and this world is still crowded with life, but crowded only with what they regarded as mundane minds. To carry freedom of expression sunward was, indeed, their only escape from the censorship that, year after year, crept outward from our world toward them.

"And before we judge of them too harshly we must remember what ruthless and utter destruction our own species has wrought upon its own creative classes. Are we such apostles of mercy as to complain if the Martians warred in the same spirit?

"The Martians seem to have calculated their conceptual assault with amazing precision -- their universities and manufacturing capability were evidently in far greater capacity than our experts believed -- and to have carried out their preparations with a well-nigh perfect unanimity. Had our instincts permitted it, we might have seen the gathering trouble in the last years of the twentieth century, but we failed to interpret the discontent as anything other than youthful rebellion."

-- the beginning paragraphs of The War of the Words, by George H. Kipps, self-published March 6, 2021

Yes, the concept is primarily so I can use this line:

"This isn't one of ours," the Apple Store employee explained. "It's an off-world knock-off -- a Martian iPod."

But as I recall, we were looking for a story arc for between the end of Operation Great Justice and the Miranda returning to Earth, and there are enough "information wants to be free" writers on the DW Forums that the idea of a struggle to liberalize copyright and patent laws might be popular. Also, this particular setup would almost force us to flesh out Fenspace's Mars. Opinions, before I post this to the Forums? (Or a veto, in which case it's a "Fenspace Alternates" plotbunny?)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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#3
I was thinking that the Sci-Fi writers would make it up myself. I was just wondering if there would be any real point in writing 'Sci-Fi' - it'd
probably be considered 'reality television.' Wink

But anyhow... Fenspace!Ben would be all up for a struggle like that. He would feel that it was time for America to be the Land of the Free once more.
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#4
Quote:I was just wondering if there would be any real point in writing 'Sci-Fi' - it'd probably be considered 'reality television.' Wink
That assumes that there's a point after which there can be no more wondering "what next?" and "where do we go from here?" -- basically the genre equivalent of that government official in the 19th century who wanted to close down the Patent Office because he thought everything that could be invented, had been.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Reply
 
#5
True. It's just that I can't imagine myself watching or reading much Sci-fi when I live it. Unless it is a really awesome story. Wink
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#6
Quote:Does the SciFi channel find it has to move off-shore to avoid problems with the FBI or Congress?

To be honest I'd think Siffy would just complete its transformation into the Ghost Hunters Network and drop all that whooshy space stuff. No, Im not bitter. Much, anyway.

Quote:I was thinking that the Sci-Fi writers would make it up myself. I was just wondering if there would be any real point in writing 'Sci-Fi' - it'd probably be considered 'reality television.'

"At the end of the 20th Century, philosopher Francis Fukuyama famously declared that we had reached the so-called 'end of history,' that no further advancements or progress would or even could be made.

"Six years later, handwavium was unleashed on the world. This could be taken as History rearing back and dope-slapping Professor Fukuyama for his insolence."

--From an unpublished history of Fenspace, written ca. 2030

Quote:But anyhow... Fenspace!Ben would be all up for a struggle like that. He would feel that it was time for America to be the Land of the Free once more.

Oh, lordy. Y'know, Fenspace is built on cliches - it thrives on them, in fact - but if there's one cliche I really, really don't want to explore is the Plucky Colonists Take On Oppressive Strawman Homeworld. Putting aside that we have enough variance in viewpoints among the authors that we'd never agree on the strawman to begin with, it's a pretty stale concept.

Now, if you guys are gung-ho about this, I'm willing to be persuaded. But if I hear word one about asteroid drops, I'ma gonna lower the veto boom.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
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#7
ASTEROID Drops? Don't be gauche! It's all about the MEMES. Big Grin

Quote:The sergeant looked askance at his platoon, who all seemed to be performing some strange pantomime.

"Just what in this man's Army are you DOING?"

The Comms specialist looked up from the platoon's laptop and grinned vapidly. "O HAI, SGT! INVISBL HMMWV!"

The sergeant paled. "Good Lord, we've been meme-bombed by LOLCATS!
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll
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#8
Oh nonononononoooo... Military faction the Roughriders may be, but Ben knows when social subversion is required when he sees it. As Foxboy has so brilliantly demonstrated.

I'm imagining the Roughriders putting together a series of shorts in a manner strikingly similar to The Muppet Show. Ben would be Kermit and Gina would be Miss Piggy, Jess would fill in any number of characters (especially the hecklers), Lilo would be Bunson with a random Julian Friez as Beaker, Stitch would be Animal, and so on and so forth.... (^_^)
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#9
Yeah, exactly. It would be more up the Fen's aisle to do a culture/meme war -- win their minds and hearts -- than a military action.

Which reminds me... I'm sure this is covered somewhere already, but surely multiple someones in J. Random Governments' militaries are trying to figure
out how to hit a target that moves at a significant fraction of lightspeed, using only 'Dane weapons (and possibly having nervous breakdowns as a result).
"In time of peace prepare for war" and all that -- after seeing what the Fen can do militarily in the wake of OGJ, 'Dane nations must be very
worried about the Fen turning their attention back to Earth.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Reply
 
#10
And Mal wonders why people like Ben worry... EDIT: No, scratch that. He doesn't really wonder, he just chalks it up for the wrong reasons.
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#11
M Fnord Wrote:Now, if you guys are gung-ho about this, I'm willing to be persuaded. But if I hear word one about asteroid drops, I'ma gonna lower the veto boom.

I was hoping we might be able to write The Fall of Boskone Prime before going on to The War of the Words, actually...

No asteroid drops - that's counter to the meme. (And if anybody on either side tries, Stellvia unlocks the really big Anson-Li GravMasters and puts a stop to it. "You idiots! We can't sell stuff to the 'danes if you kill them!")

blackaeronaut Wrote:I'm imagining the Roughriders putting together a series of shorts in a manner strikingly similar to The Muppet Show. Ben would be Kermit and Gina would be Miss Piggy, Jess would fill in any number of characters (especially the hecklers),

No, no... Noah & Katz as Waldorf & Statler. (With the one-episode replacement of Noah/Waldorf with Leda/Astoria, of course...) 8)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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#12
Quote: No, no... Noah & Katz as Waldorf & Statler. (With the one-episode replacement of Noah/Waldorf with Leda/Astoria, of course...) 8)
Feh! Let's just make it a guest slot - keep it fresh that way. (^_^)
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#13
One of the assumptions that I've been working under is that the Blazers are most particularly not abandoning Earth. Part of the general philosophy of the
Institute is the betterment of Humanity, on both an individual and a collective basis, and it is generally held that you can't do either if you wall off
one part of Humanity as unworthy of your attentions. Blazers move across the planet and while World Watch One may not be the most welcome sight in the United
States during the initial Diaspora, it doesn't stop the Bus from showing up from time to time.

The government really can't make life difficult for the Blazers because they are very publicly philanthropists. The Institute regularly helps distressed
communities all over the world, including in the United States, and they make sure that the media knows about it. If the government tried to lean on them, the
leaners would find themselves on the news within 24 hours. In addition, several senior Blazers are well trained American lawyers, with finely honed
litigational reflexes.

In addition, most of the senior Blazers have pretty congenial attitudes. They're friendly, helpful, and not particularly confrontational, until they need
to be otherwise. They have a tendency to do what they want to do, ignoring those people trying to dictate policy, because the policy makers are almost always
uninformed or unwilling to be informed about the situation. Also, with the Global Frequency and Buckaroo's information network, they have a tendency to be
better informed and faster informed than many officials. By the time that the policy makers can deny the Blazers access, they've already stepped in, fixed
the problem, and are on the way out, at which point, they smile, nod at the blustering politicians, step out of the way, and move on to the next issue.

Some of this comes from the attitudes set up in the canon, where politicians and military men have difficulty stopping the Cavaliers, even when they come along
for the ride. Buckaroo's charisma and the general disregard for officials allows the team to just fix the problem and move on, and the government realizes
that Buckaroo just saved them a lot of effort and time on his own. In addition, Blackstone likes to bring up that many martial arts teach about avoiding
incoming blows and redirecting the force so that it is disappated without harming anyone, a philosophy that he believes can be used in social confrontations as
well. He also points out that the people fostering these anti-Fen feelings are the government, which does not speak for all people, and that isolating the
general populace only does the government's job for them.

Personally, I don't think the anti-Fen sentiments are going to maintain in America. As soon as people see the draw of outer space and the markets that the
Fen open, people are going to want to cash in on it.
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."
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#14
It may not maintain, but you can bet there's going to be pockets of folks like that scattered here and there throughout the world. (Besides, who can resist
Gina when she is at her most melodramatically bipolar? ... Gina, love, I was joking. You may put the sword down now. Wink
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#15
Ebony -- people can want to profit from something and still hate it. Just as a token observation. I should also note that in addition to the Blue Blazers, the
Knight Riders are certainly still active in the US, although they are considerably lower-profile. (ETA: And, technically, I suppose they could be considered
outlaws or criminals, depending any given official's devotion to documenting every individual in the country. If Homeland Security suspects they're
anything more than urban legend, they're probably actively pursuing the Riders.)

Hm. I wonder what connections there might be between the Blazers and the Riders.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Reply
 
#16
Quote:He also points out that the people fostering these anti-Fen feelings are the government, which does not speak for all people, and that isolating the general populace only does the government's job for them.

Not to get all Noam Chomsky, but I think America is very much a media-driven culture, where public discourse (and public policy following after it) is influenced by what the culture sees on TV, hears on radio, reads in the newspapers or the blogs. In order to understand American policy towards Fenspace, we have to understand how the media portrays Fenspace.

So, how does the media portray Fenspace?
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
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#17
Well, I'd point to the http://www.fenspace.net/index.php5?titl ... n_Fenspace]Television in Fenspace page as a starter. That's mostly before OGJ though.

After, I think the PR bods from JLI and others will start doing the meme thing, probably on the 'Good-Triumphing-Over-Evil' frontier-man-defending-his-land-from-bandits sort of area.

As some of the benefits start to come through (things like cybernetics restoring crippled soldiers lives, solutions to the energy and food crises, iPhone killers, diet plans that REALLY WORK!, new consumer toys, the Idiot's Guide to Fenspace coming out, etc...), people will stop grumbling about the Fen and get back to their lives (if they even left them).

Then the first Fen TV series will start hitting the 'Dane airwaves, the Kandor City Orbiters will start playing Baseball, documentaries on the terraforming projects will become staples on the History and Discovery channels...

The next bump in the road is when the BIG Fen Projects reach fruition.

All my opinion of course.
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#18
Quote: M Fnord wrote:


Quote: So, how does the media portray Fenspace?


As I stated above, and in what I've gotten down on paper, the Blazers and the Institute are very much in the media eye. Blue Blazers have a
tendency to pop up whenever there is a need for extra hands during disasters, and a number of the Global Frequency are subject matter experts on a wide variety
of subjects, so you have talking heads showing up in the news media wearing the Double B. Buckaroo's information network runs both ways, and the Institute
does its best to maintain a cordial relationship with most major media entities, even Fox News. (Blackstone: "Hey, we send them a press release just like
we send everyone else. It's not our fault that Murdoch can't read it.")
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."
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