US Navy options for the future--probably stating the obvious.

[New Hampshire Battleship Lover]

I see two things the US Navy might well look at for the future in Fenspace--but would need to look at right now, real time, in order to have the option.
1.  USS Iowa.  The old batleship is the only one that has not yet been turned into a museum, and is still navy property.  Keep it as navy property, for several reasons.
     A.  It is a truely tough ship--tougher than anything else around, in pure armor.  It can also carry a LOT of firepower.
     B.  If Ciara created a stir as a "Space Battleship," watch what a REAL battleship will do.
     C.  It is designed to have airithgt compartments, so life support and compartmentalization are easy, with less handwaving than a motorcar.
2.  USS Enterprise.
     A.  The ship is nuclear powered, huge, and nicely compartmented.  It's a true warship--and also designed to carry smaller craft.
     B.  The sheer name appeal will impress the treckies--and face it, almost everyone else at least respects the name "Enterprise."
Both ships are, in reality, slated for disposal in one form or another, so loosing them won't detract from the navy's current mission.  And sooner or later, the USA will see more of a need to interact with fenspace, and to project power out there.  Submarines are all well and good--but they don't have the sheer presence of a battleship or carrier.  Battleships and Carriers say, "We're HERE!" like nothing else.  Handwaved, the Iowa might be the next best thing to indestructible...
Also, Japan, if needed, has the next best ship for a presence out there--the battleship Mikasa.  A Japanese space battleship would turn heads.
None of these ships could be hijacked by the Fen--nor should they be.
I had an idea for the Enterprise at some point, as the government tries to co-opt Saoirse Kelly into assisting them--and she carefully makes sure that the ship gets a diet of the most rebellion focussed episodes--the "Good guys" are ignoring orders for the sake of doing the right thing.
But--if someone else wants to use any of these ships, I am making no claim to them.  I'd love to see what someone might do with them.  If info on the reality of the ships is wanted, I know a LOT about the Iowa's, and a respectable amount about battleships generally; less about carriers.
I hope someone wants to do something with some of this.

[M Fnord]

The main obstacle here would be political - as in the entire US Air Force would turn purple, swallow their tongues and fight any carrier or battleship refit with all their might. Still, depending on how many allies the Navy has in Congress it might be doable.

(I'd say purpose would be another obstacle, but the American military-industrial complex doesn't worry about such piddling mortal things as 'purpose.')

As for the Mikasa... I can't see it. That one really is a museum ship, it'd be like waving the USS Constitution and taking it to space.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Foxboy]

The TSAB and 'Daneside anti-Wave watchdog groups are watching the Navy VERY closely after the Stingray incident, so there's a degree of difficulty added.

Tom Foutaise {Dartz's Political nutjob Talk Radio Host} and folks like Glenn Beck, etc. are likely shining a very bright light on it.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[HRogge]

I think the chances for the Navy to get another waved boat larger than a life raft without official approval are slim to non-existent. If they get the approval they could do it (but it will take a lot of time), but I don't think they will be able to hide the waving of a capital ship from their own government, from the TSAB and from the Air Force.

----

About the Japanese Battleship... just make sure it has a third bride, this counts as extra ablative armor.

[Bob Schroeck]

just make sure it has a third bride, this counts as extra ablative armor.

Does that require she wear the white dress and carry a bouquet? Or is a wedding ring sufficient?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Star Ranger4]

depends on if she's stationed on the third bridge or not... *rimshot*
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[New Hampshire Battleship Lover]

The Enterprise is scheduled to be decomissioned--a very expensive process.  It would involve serious wrongdoing on the part of naval officials, but it would likely be LESS expensive to wave the ship than to go through the hiddiously expensive decomissioning process.
Iowa might be tougher--she's not a nuclear powered ship in full comission, so there's less money involved in decomissioning her.
In either case, the navy isn't diverting a critical unit elsewhere; it's using a surplus ship that would otherwise sit somewhere rusting.
Of course, either ship could be "disposed of," and the recipients, with unofficial navy cooperation, get her into space.  They wouldn't be able to come back.
More likely, the navy proposes 'waving the Enterprise to save money--and points out that space is almost completely beyond the reach of the United State's ability to project power.  A prominent American citizen getting in trouble in the Boskone War might just do it...
Or, after the war, the Fen hold a naval review as part of the post-war celebrations.  That review will get coverage on earth--everyone likes a spectacle!

[ECSNorway]

The most felicitous time period for this to happen would be right after the First Boskone War, as the USAF and TSAB presence in FenSpace is rather heavily discredited with the American public (and Congress) at that time, and as I recall the Stingray crew came out with flying colors.

For something to happen before/during the war, it would be a pretty significant change in several aspects thereof, the ships would probably be central figures in a couple of major battles. I'm not opposed to doing this, I'd just need a good justification and to know that no one's already-planned stories were in danger of being invalidated by it.

A way it could work: if the TSAB/AF issues started coming to public light early in the war, rather than mostly late/after it, that could bring the Navy enough swing in Congress to get this approved.

Random Crazy Fennish Idea: US Naval (Air) Station, Europa. Hey, there's oceans there. That means it's Navy territory.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[HRogge]

skipping funny typo

LOL... okay, I have earned this typo for trying a bad pun early in the morning... *G*

But I think any Navy activity should only start 2015 or later... otherwise it would invalidate parts of Season 1.
(and it should not happen before the birth of the Artemis Foundation)

[Dartz]

And of course, sailing out of an inlet in Northern Russia aboard a newly refurbished Arkhangelsk. Because if you've got one, you've got to have the other.

"... a deadly game of chess against our old adversary, the American Navy. For forty years, your fathers and their fathers before this game played this game, and played it well. Now, we begin again; no longer in the silence beneath the ocean, but in the silence between the planets. The order is, engage the ion drive. Comrades, Today we sail into history...."

EDIT:

Okay, that's not such a good idea, though it could spur some sort of revised outer space treaty.... nobody wants another arms race sort of thing.
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--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[HRogge]

And of course, sailing out of an inlet in Northern Russia aboard a newly refurbished Arkhangelsk. Because if you've got one, you've got to have the other.

"... a deadly game of chess against our old adversary, the American Navy. For forty years, your fathers and their fathers before this game played this game, and played it well. Now, we begin again; no longer in the silence beneath the ocean, but in the silence between the planets. The order is, engage the ion drive. Comrades, Today we sail into history...."

EDIT:

Okay, that's not such a good idea, though it could spur some sort of revised outer space treaty.... nobody wants another arms race sort of thing.

I don't think the "outer space treaty" is worth the paper its written on. With the tech to get into orbit easily and the threat of orbital supremacy of "the other side" (including asteroid strikes) the larger Earth nations would quickly take control of the Earth-Moon system and maybe beyond.

[New Hampshire Battleship Lover]

I very much don't want to invalidate anything--I'm just a newcomer to Fenspace, after all--but those two ships caught my eye--as much as their significance to certain Fen as anything else. I'm definately seeing a few things that need to be addressed, though.
1.  The USN already has a presence in space, although a minor one.  Other nations might just do the same--and the navy is very aware of this.
2.  A full out militarization of space by the ground powers will spoil the genre--so must not happen.
So, if the USN puts another ship or two into space, a new treaty might well be negotiated.  Each nation may have 3, and only 3, space capable warships.  USN has Iowa, Enterprise, and Skipjack are the USN's.  (Or, along the lines of the Washington Treaty, USA, China, and Russia can each have 3, Britain, France, and some others can have two, the rest can have one each.)
A further addition might prohibit sale of warships to spacegoing powers, and regulate territorial claims.
This gives enough warships in space to show the flag, rescue nationals in trouble, stomp on a single faction of troublemakers, and overall be impressive--but not enough to threaten an occupation of Fenspace.  And like it or not, Terran opperations in space will be very difficult if the Fen are overall hostile.  More could be worked out later if anyone does a story.
Perhaps the navy starts waving one of the ships as the war is going on, only to have the war end just as the American ship soars into space.
I have tentative ideas for using one of the ships, but do not claim them--if someone else wants to use them, feel free, as far as I'm concerned.

[HRogge]

Not sure China would agree limiting themselves with a treaty... they never did.

[New Hampshire Battleship Lover]

China seems to want to REALLY minimise contact with the Fen.  They might see that antagonising both the Fen and the other ground nations could push them closer together--and that could be a bad thing.
Of course, the more imaginative types that tend to do well with Handwavium might also decide that tney don't want to come home--and the Chinese already know that the Fen are pro freedom and pro defector.  They might well decide to stay down on Earth.
I'm scrambling for a way for the Earth powers to get a presence in space, but without changing the overall nature of Fenspace.  NOT having them geting up more and more is unreasonable--so we all need a reason for the groundside nations not to come up in force, and partition the solar system.  After all, space is at a dangerous point--rich enough to be a viable addition to any nation's economy, but not able to keep a ground military out.

[HRogge]

I am working on a second part of the "Thor Heyerdahl" story... it will not be ESAs last step into the solar system.

But I see no reason why it needs to be military presence.

[New Hampshire Battleship Lover]

I am working on a second part of the "Thor Heyerdahl" story... it will not be ESAs last step into the solar system.
But I see no reason why it needs to be military presence.

Human nature, sadly, is to send military forces wherever it's practical.  It can be handvaved away for genre convention--but if we can get a small military presence, and keep it small, it seems to fit reality better.  Of course, with multiple nations in space, their limited quantity of ships will want to keep an eye on each other.
My tentative plan for Enterprise, however, may well discourage further experiments along those lines, when and if I get to writing it.
  

[Dartz]

The big impediment to having military 'up' will be the costs of keeping them up their. They're going to need a base, which is going to have to be built, which is going to have to be supplied. Then you're going to have to supply your spaceship. There's also the costs of conversion and construction to military standard, contractors bilking as much money as possible out of the system. So while the SS Ciara was bought for scrapiron value, and waved using funding from a disgraced banker looking for a quiet place to avoid a fraud investigation/conviction, it'd cost billions to retrofit a small-ish functional US warship, let alone a fricking aircraft carrier.

The big obstacle to the military in space is that it costs a lot of money to get assets up there, when you live down the well. And that's with mundane problems usually being far more pressing.

There're better ways to project power and influence than with a gunboat....

Open space is something like the open ocean.... everyone's ship has the right to go anywhere, outside of special areas surrounding claimed asteroids and settlements. It's just, it's expensive to send a large military presence up there unless you have a specific reason to send them there. China might be solely protecting it's airspace from another 999 incident, and the Russians might have a flag-waver for diplomatic missions, and to match the United States. It might not even be Naval.... The British may well send a retrofitted Vulkan with a love for logic, or just a Concorde as the Royal Spaceship....

The big countries also have a lot to think about when it comes to accidentally provoking a response from the other side, since they're also so inter-dependant on each other.
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[Black Aeronaut]

Actually...

Okay. I got a work around, but it's going to take some serious doing. Stay with me on this.

The first thing that's going to need to happen is that the US is going to need a trade partner - someone that they can export to in order to offset their trade deficit. Fenspace is an ideal trade partner in this respect because there's always a need for fresh fruits, vegetables, canned goods, non-perishables, etc.  Fenspace, as a whole, can likely afford this because there are many large factions that can afford a lot of food - not to mention that they can buy food with other means such as precious metals, rare-earths, and products difficult to manufacture in a gravity well.

The second thing is that with the sudden upswing in trade, plus that all major Boskonian bases have been destroyed, ordinary piracy has now skyrocketed. It's not so much that they're hungry themselves. It's more like a traditional operation. They take the food from the cargo ships (and a ship itself every now and then), space the crews, and resell it on the black market to the fen that have fallen from grace (or never were there in the first place). Say the Turnerites or the Draken for example.

This is where the US gets righteously cheesed off. This is where I can easily see Mal, the big man when it comes to butting heads with congress, to just up and say, "Well we sure as hell can't cover every trade route. Why don't you do something about it." He would expect them to get mired in petty bureaucracy at this point. Except the US navy, which has been quietly currying favor while the Airforce and TSAB bungle things, acquire funding for a BIG project.

Now, I'm leaving it open to people who'll make offerings to the US and who'll get contracts, but let's just say that someone convinced the cooler heads in the Senate that contracting known heavy builders among the fen would be the way to go for two reasons: quality of workmanship (they know the Fen have had the most experience in working with handwavium, thus they know how to get a relatively quirk-free ships) and expense (the fen aren't gonna gouge like, say, Northrop Grunman or General Dynamics - infact, the worst they'll probably ask for is a few old warship hulls).

Bids are made. Contracts are signed. Refitting begins. Primary targets are newer model DD/DDG and CN/CG ships (Vietname Era and newer) that have either been mothballed or waiting to be scrapped. As Arleigh Burk DDGs and Ticonderoga CGs are retired, those will be added to the fleet as well. Later, as the smaller warships prove their worth, a small number of carriers may be added as trade expands outside the system. This will enable fleet assets to better combat threats from smaller, faster craft. Finally, Iowa-class ships will be needed to act not only as large weaponry platforms as they have in the past, but also mobile command bases. This is part of the reason why Iowas were so big and heavily armored - because they were the flags of admirals in direct charge of entire fleets. While in modern warfare that honor as gone to aircraft carriers as they have greater striking power than battleships, this will change with the addition of coil-guns and other more advanced weapons.

Also, this could explain why space exploration initiatives are all but cut in the US Government - they have gone to military expenditures to protect their trade interests, which will be critical to the US for the foreseeable future.

Thoughts?
ETA: I don't see this as anything dystopean.  Where there is trade, there is always piracy, and where there is piracy there is at least one country out to look after it's interests.  Life as usual.

[ECSNorway]

From the Halls of Montezuma, to the Shores of Tripoli

We will fight our country's battles, in the air, on land, and sea

First to fight for rights and freedom, and to keep our honor clean

We are proud to claim the title of United States Marines

The USMC's first real engagement: putting down the Barbary Pirates. They will be ALL OVER this campaign.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[robkelk]

As for the Mikasa... I can't see it. That one really is a museum ship, it'd be like waving the USS Constitution and taking it to space.

"Hey! Why don't we wave the USS Constitution and take it into space?"

"Are you nucking futs?"

"Asks the person who came up with the names for the Hornblower-class, the Aubrey-class, the Bolitho-class..."

"Stifle it."

Random Crazy Fennish Idea: US Naval (Air) Station, Europa. Hey, there's oceans there. That means it's Navy territory.

"All these worlds are yours, exept Europa. That one's the Navy's."

China seems to want to REALLY minimise contact with the Fen.

History shows that the oldest nation on Earth, no matter who runs it, is not accustomed to taking directions from anyone. Neither are the Fen. The Chinese are very good at solving this sort of problem - ignore it and it will go away. (It always has, in the past...)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Black Aeronaut]

The Chinese are very good at solving this sort of problem - ignore it and it will go away. (It always has, in the past...)

If they do this, they may - in the far, far future - inherit the Earth for their own people... but only because everyone else left for better places.  Such is the fate of an isolationist regime.  (I bet they love to educate thair kids about the evil creatures that exist outside the atmosphere.)

[Dakota]

I'd not put it past nations to start getting some military assists up so they can defend themselves from some rogue loon trying to drop a rock on them. Most likely small fast ships instead of big units
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Sabre Fang
Dakota

[HRogge]

Lets not forget how HUGE space is.

A single carrier is pretty useless to protect your assets, unless they are all on the same station. A series of destroyers can be in multiple places at once.

The US has a lot of carriers not because they "want to protect their trade/ships/...", but because carriers are good at projecting power for offensive operations. Not sure if we want that kind of operations in Fenspace in the near future.

[Dakota]

Lets not forget how HUGE space is.

A single carrier is pretty useless to protect your assets, unless they are all on the same station. A series of destroyers can be in multiple places at once.

The US has a lot of carriers not because they "want to protect their trade/ships/...", but because carriers are good at projecting power for offensive operations. Not sure if we want that kind of operations in Fenspace in the near future.

Hm joint effort between the Navy and the Coast Guard to setup a Orbital Patrol? The Coast Guard already has people up if only has guards at the first lunar landing site.
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Sabre Fang
Dakota

[Dartz]

Maybe one or two ships as part of a combined task force? Enough to say 'we're taking part', but nothing 'expensive' and tax-payer unfriendly.
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