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Gloom Sabre wishlist- and req for recs for alt builds
Gloom Sabre wishlist- and req for recs for alt builds
#1
Well, here's my D^3 Sabre design...

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401

http://www.cohplanner.com/


Click this DataLink to open the build!


Gloom Sabre: Level 50 Magic Defender

Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma

Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast

Power Pool: Teleportation

Power Pool: Fitness

Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Twilight Grasp
  • (A) Touch of the Nictus - Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration/Recharge
  • (3) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
  • (11) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing
  • (19) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration
  • (43) Touch of the Nictus - Healing
Level 1: Dark Blast
  • (A) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Recharge
  • (3) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/ToHit Debuff
  • (15) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
  • (19) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
  • (40) Siphon Insight - Chance for +ToHit
Level 2: Gloom
  • (A) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff
  • (5) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
  • (9) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
  • (21) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff
  • (40) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
Level 4: Moonbeam
  • (A) Extreme Measures - Accuracy/Damage
  • (5) Extreme Measures - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  • (7) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  • (23) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
  • (40) Tempest - Chance of End Drain
Level 6: Darkest Night
  • (A) To Hit Debuff IO
  • (7) To Hit Debuff IO
  • (9) Endurance Reduction IO
  • (31) Endurance Reduction IO
  • (43) Deflated Ego - Chance for Recovery Debuff
Level 8: Recall Friend
  • (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 10: Shadow Fall
  • (A) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
  • (11) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
  • (15) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
  • (34) Impervium Armor - Resistance
  • (43) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
Level 12: Fearsome Stare
  • (A) Glimpse of the Abyss - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
  • (13) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Fear/Recharge
  • (13) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
  • (34) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
  • (45) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
Level 14: Teleport
  • (A) Winter's Gift - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles
  • (A) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
  • (17) Trap of the Hunter - Immobilize/Accuracy
  • (17) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
  • (37) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
  • (46) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
Level 18: Hurdle
  • (A) Jumping IO
Level 20: Health
  • (A) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (21) Miracle - Heal
Level 22: Stamina
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  • (23) Performance Shifter - EndMod
Level 24: Night Fall
  • (A) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
  • (25) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
  • (25) Deflated Ego - To Hit Debuff
  • (37) Deflated Ego - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
  • (46) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
Level 26: Black Hole
  • (A) Intangibility Duration IO
  • (27) Intangibility Duration IO
  • (27) Endurance Reduction IO
  • (37) Endurance Reduction IO
  • (46) Accuracy IO
Level 28: Torrent
  • (A) Explosive Strike - Accuracy/Knockback
  • (29) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
  • (29) Explosive Strike - Damage/Knockback
Level 30: Petrifying Gaze
  • (A) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold
  • (31) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
  • (31) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold
  • (34) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
Level 32: Dark Servant
  • (A) Theft of Essence - Healing
  • (33) Theft of Essence - Healing/Recharge
  • (33) Enfeebled Operation - Immobilize/Range
  • (33) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
Level 35: Life Drain
  • (A) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage
  • (36) Devastation - Damage/Endurance
  • (36) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
  • (36) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance
Level 38: Blackstar
  • (A) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
  • (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  • (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
  • (39) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
Level 41: Dark Consumption
  • (A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy
  • (42) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
  • (42) Armageddon - Damage
  • (42) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
Level 44: Dark Embrace
  • (A) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
  • (45) Titanium Coating - Resistance
  • (45) Titanium Coating - Endurance
  • (48) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Recharge
Level 47: Soul Drain
  • (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
  • (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
  • (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
  • (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
Level 49: Oppressive Gloom
  • (A) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
  • (50) Absolute Amazement - Stun
  • (50) Endurance Reduction IO
------------

Level 1: Brawl
  • (A) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
Level 1: Sprint
  • (A) Quickfoot - Endurance/RunSpeed
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Healing IO
Level 1: Vigilance
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll
Reply
 
#2
Okay. Before I start, I should say that I'm gonna...give a very harsh critique here. I apologise in advance, no offence intended. Really! And unlike most people when they use those words, I actually mean it. =D
Also, a lot of my comments come from, well, my own experience with playing a Dark defender - Space Mage - and I suspect my style is entirely different from yours. You seem to have a few particular objectives with this build, and my way is kinda different.
So that's my first question. First of all, what is your intent for this build? What are you trying to achieve?
The set bonuses look like a pretty mixed bag to me - I can tell you've focused on Recovery bonuses...and I agree with that, since a D3 can be pretty heavy on the end use. But otherwise I don't really see any pattern to the bonuses.
Secondly, I find it...kinda eyebrow-raising that most of your blasts are slotted for ToHit debuff and not damage. Dark Torrent is similarly slotted for knockback and not damage. I suppose if you're going a pure 'support' route this makes sense, but honestly I dunno about this.
While I don't have any numbers to back up my assertion, I suspect you'll have adequate ToHit debuff on an opponent without slotting the way you've done. I seem to be fine leaning on just the Dark Miasma primary alone (since Space Mage's secondary is Energy Blast) without even needing an additional source of ToHit debuff.
And I'm really really against defenders who don't actually use their attacks. And I'm against this because, to me, a defender who doesn't attack is a bad team player. A defender might not do as much damage as a blaster, but damage is still what your secondary is for, and if you ain't using it...that seems wrong to me, and not contributing as much to a team as you should.
However, I will admit that's a somewhat subjective viewpoint, and probably my own opinions showing, like I warned earlier, so feel free to disregard that.
What I am puzzled about though ... is given the emphasis on this ToHit debuff slotting... that you've slotted Dark Servant for Heal and Immobilize.
See...if you actually look at what Dark Servant does, the primary contribution in my opinion is actually Chill of the Night, which is, yes, a ToHitDebuff. Putting a heal in there isn't a bad idea, really, but I don't consider the Servant's Tentacles to be that useful. Nor does it seem, to me, that the set bonuses you're getting from those Heal and Immob enhancements are all that useful. I'd suggest, if you only have four slots to burn, looking into a mixed bag of Heal and ToHitDebuff for Fluffy, along with some accuracy.
On the other hand, you could argue that my preference for slotting Fluffy with ToHit debuff is precisely because Space Mage doesn't have the dark secondary for additional ToHit debuff, as you seem to be counting on. So your milage may vary... but that's how I see it. Granted, you've got QB Kitsune and Lady Nogitsune as previous experience with slotting ze Fluffies, but I suspect Lady Nogi's Fluffy must be high on the recharge due to the nerfed MM version of the secondary. I wouldn't know how QB's is.
Finally, I'd strongly advise against taking Black Hole. I do realise there's a sort of automatic knee-jerk reaction to taking any enemy intangibility power in the game, but let me explain my reasoning.
The thing is... most players don't know what the hell to do with it. And I don't just mean people who have the power and use it unwisely, I mean a lot of players will continue to attack an enemy even if the Unaffected message is floating over its head.
It's fine for soloing, I think, but so damn situational in a team situation that I'd rather not have the damn thing. I dunno tho, again, you've got your own take on Dark, I'm sure.
-- Acyl
Reply
 
#3
Honestly... I'm going intuitively, what FEELS right. Also, trying "different" sets that might be less difficult to acquire, such as the KB. But, Going back and trying a few tweaks here and there... [Adding some Damage to the blasts, allowing for dropping sets due to the bonus being maxed out by other tweaks] Currently I have Fluffy Slotted for Across the Board Damage boost.
Still thinking of a Ninja Playstyle... Stealth/port where possible, Snipe/pull from the shadows.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Gloom Sabre: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(A), Nictus-%Dam(3), Nictus-Acc/Heal(11), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(19), Nictus-Heal(43)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(3), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SipInsght-%ToHit(40)
Level 2: Gloom -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Cloud-%Dam(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(21), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 4: Moonbeam -- ExtrmM-Acc/Dmg(A), ExtrmM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(23), ExtrmM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(40)
Level 6: Darkest Night -- ToHitDeb-I(A), ToHitDeb-I(7), EndRdx-I(9), EndRdx-I(31), DefEgo-RecDeb%(43)
Level 8: Recall Friend -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Shadow Fall -- GftotA-Def/Rchg(A), GftotA-Def(11), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(34), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare -- Abys-Dam%(A), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg(13), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Cloud-%Dam(45)
Level 14: Teleport -- Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(A)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- TotHntr-Dam%(A), TotHntr-Immob/Acc(17), Posi-Acc/Dmg(17), Posi-Dam%(37), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(21)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23)
Level 24: Night Fall -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(25), DefEgo-ToHitDeb(25), DefEgo-ToHitDeb/Rchg(37), Cloud-%Dam(46)
Level 26: Howling Twilight -- Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(A), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(27), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(37), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46)
Level 28: Torrent -- ExStrk-Acc/KB(A), ExStrk-Dam%(29), ExStrk-Dmg/KB(29)
Level 30: Petrifying Gaze -- Lock-%Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Hold(31), Lock-Rchg/Hold(31), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34)
Level 32: Dark Servant -- DampS-Rchg/EndRdx(A), DampS-Rchg(33), Lock-Rchg/Hold(33), Lock-Acc/Hold(33)
Level 35: Life Drain -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(36), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Blackstar -- Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-%Dam(39)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Dmg(42), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam(45), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(45), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), GSFC-ToHit(50)
Level 49: Oppressive Gloom -- Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(A), Amaze-Stun(50), EndRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- T'Death-Dam%(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- QckFt-EndRdx/RunSpd(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Heal-I(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll
Reply
 
#4
Ok... I'm going to take a whack at this... I've got a low lvl Darkity Defender on one of the servers somewhere... and a have over 50 levels experience on Dark powers on corruptors. ((Also have dark brutes and stalkers but that's a different story.))
Here's my take on defenders, particularly D^3...
  • Primary powers are called Primary for a reason.
  • Secondary powers are called Secondary for a reason.
  • Defenders can not out blast blasters. There are exceptions to this. (Looking at you Gamma) Dark^3 is not one of them.
  • Dark^3 makes life hell for your opponent. It is all about making them miss and healing when they do hit.
  • To assist in that you have a big heal, the arguably the best rez, and a bundle of soft controls that stack with your blasts to make your opponents go to goo.
  • And then they give you Fluffy.
Some further notes:
  • Its all about To Hit. Specifically yours and theirs. You need a high level and lots of it, and everything about you debuffs your opponents. This prevents them from landing attacks in the first place, hence reducing the need for your heal.
  • Shadowfall by itself is not enough to stealth a mission. You need an additional layer. Either a +Stealth IO in Sprint or SupperSpeed or similar.
  • Darkity Dark powers chew end. There is no denying that. You need to plan and play accordingly.
  • One thing to note - You have the elusive Fear resistance in Shadowfall - you have no stun, or hold resistance or knockback resistance. And trust me, slotting a status protection IO into Shadowfall will not help.
YMMV on the following points
  • Shadowfall provides both defense and resist. Fear and psi resist. Note it is not worth slotting up the resist component.
  • Torrent is a waste of time, energy, and a slot.
  • Black Hole is ... well, a black hole.
  • Petrifying Gaze doesn't work on boss unless you stack it with Fluffy's or itself
  • With Shadowfall running you don't really need a snipe, you can get close enough to the mobs for any pulling that's needed.
  • Fluffy.
Ok onto the build... using my personal experience with the powers, and what you say you want to play the toon as, here's one possible build. Its somewhat similar to my corruptor's build, but different at the same time... and also close to your build. I could have gotten more out of it, but now (at the time of writing this up offline) its 1:20 am.
Points to note:
  • Tactics boost your to hit, Assault boost you damage which can seem lacking at times.
  • Tar pit and the leadership pool can be swapped out for an attack if you wish.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Gloom: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Theft-Acc/Heal:28(A), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:28(3), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Heal:28(3), Theft-Heal/Rchg:28(7), Theft-Heal:28(11), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:33(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:33(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:33(11), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:33(23), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:33(25)
Level 2: Darkest Night -- DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx:28(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:28(7), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx:28(15), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg:28(46), DampS-ToHitDeb:28(50)
Level 4: Gloom -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:33(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:33(5), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:33(15), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:33(23), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:33(25)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 8: Shadow Fall -- GftotA-Def:33(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx:33(9), GftotA-EndRdx/Rchg:33(9), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:33(19)
Level 10: Recall Friend -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare -- Abys-Acc/Rchg:28(A), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg:28(13), Abys-Acc/EndRdx:28(17), Abys-EndRdx/Fear:28(19), Abys-Dam%:28(43), Abys-Fear/Rng:28(43)
Level 14: Teleport -- Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx:33(A)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- TotHntr-Acc/Rchg:28(A), TotHntr-EndRdx/Immob:28(17), TotHntr-Acc/EndRdx:28(31), TotHntr-Dam%:28(36), Dmg-I:30(37)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I:30(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:33(46), Numna-Heal:33(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(21), EndMod-I:30(21)
Level 22: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 24: Night Fall -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:28(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:28(27), Posi-Acc/Dmg:28(29), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:28(37), Posi-Dam%:28(40)
Level 26: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(27)
Level 28: Tactics -- AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg:33(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg:33(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:33(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx:33(37), AdjTgt-ToHit:33(40)
Level 30: Petrifying Gaze -- NrncSD-Acc/Rchg:30(A), NrncSD-EndRdx/Hold:30(31), NrncSD-Acc/EndRdx:30(34), NrncSD-Hold/Rng:30(40), RechRdx-I:35(43)
Level 32: Dark Servant -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb:35(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg:35(33), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx:35(33), Mrcl-Heal:35(33), Acc-I:35(34), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg:35(34)
Level 35: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(36), RechRdx-I:40(36)
Level 38: Blackstar -- Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:41(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:41(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:41(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:41(39)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:44(A), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:44(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:44(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:44(42)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- ImpArm-ResDam:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(45), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(45), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(45)
Level 47: Soul Drain -- Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48)
Level 49: Oppressive Gloom -- Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg:50(A), Amaze-Stun:50(50), EndRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth:28(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
  • 7% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 7% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 7% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 7% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 7% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 7% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 7% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 7% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 2.5% Defense(Energy)
  • 2.5% Defense(Negative)
  • 1.88% Defense(Psionic)
  • 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
  • 9.9% Max End
  • 5% Enhancement(Immobilize)
  • 2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)
  • 28.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 59% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 5% Enhancement(Heal)
  • 4% FlySpeed
  • 91.6 HP (9%) HitPoints
  • 4% JumpHeight
  • 4% JumpSpeed
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 4.95%
  • 19.5% (0.33 End/sec) Recovery
  • 52% (2.21 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 4.08% Resistance(Fire)
  • 1.58% Resistance(Cold)
  • 1.26% Resistance(Energy)
  • 10% Resistance(Negative)
  • 3.13% Resistance(Psionic)
  • 4% RunSpeed

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#5
Regarding damage slotting...
I don't think a Defender is going to rival a blaster for damage output, as a general rule. However, I'm really strongly against the idea that Tanks and Defenders should not slot for damage at all. Because no matter how low your damage, it's still part of your contribution to the team, and a non-trivial contribution at that. This is particularly the case if you're bringing along some kind of damage resistance debuff (Rad, Sonic, and Dark) or damage buffs (Kin).
I also recognize that your milage may vary, and this is very much personal preference and opinions. It's very subjective, and I admit that. It is a valid argument that - if your role is pure support - then your power usage should be directed entirely towards that goal. See the whole 'Pure Empath' playstyle as an example of that.
Regarding power choices...
Moonbeam: The thing with Moonbeam is that it is a good attack power, comes very early on in the set (which is important)... and a Dark/Dark defender, with all the to-hit debuff, can probably get it off reliably even in the middle of a fight. On the other hand, you need to ask if you should be trying to do damage at all, or whether your time is better spent using your utility powers. That I can't answer for you. It is perhaps worthwhile to take Moonbeam for the pulling capabilities, but whether that's worth the power pick in your build is also debatable. How often do you anticipate needing to pull that way?
I personally don't have snipe attacks on any of my defenders or corruptors, figuring that I do most of my work up close anyway, and usually open with stuff other than a snipe - I slap down debuffs and control powers. I also believe in providing support right up front with the meleers rather than hanging back. It depends on how you're swinging it, however. I have a friend who swears by Moonbeam and would probably marry it. Or at least date it.
Torrent: I don't think Dark Torrent is entirely useless for a Dark character. The knockback does serve a function - namely, for me, repositioning enemies so they're in range of the debuffs. I use Torrent on Space Mage to knock enemies back into Tar Patch or within range of the Darkest Night anchor. Or to bunch 'em up before applying Fearsome Stare. This works reasonably well for me. Whether it fits your playstyle is, once again, debatable, and something I cannot determine for you.
-- Acyl
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#6
I'm gonna chime in with Acyl on the whole "defenders should do damage too!" bandwagon. And, while I can't speak for Wire, I think his
comment when I mentioned dropping some of Rhea's attacks is telling: "Her name's Emerald BLAST, right?" Smile

That said... I've got a /Dark defender, Nano Sabre. She's got a Rad primary. Thing I've found is that Dark Blast is an _awesome_ secondary set.
(And Acyl? I'm one of the Moonbeam Huggle Brigade; that power is niiiice, especially slotted for rech and -interrupt).

Dark Blast can dish out good damage, and the hold is nothing to sneeze at either. In my experience, concentrate on the lower-tier powers. Blackstar may be
hot shit, but you couldn't tell that by my experience; I'm thinking of dropping it. Life Drain seems like it'd be nice, but honestly, by the time
you get it, you shouldn't really need it, and it does nothing to help the team. It's a pure selfish power, IMO. (That's not necessarily a bad
thing, but in my view defenders are team support).

So, I'd suggest dropping those two from the secondary. Take everything else, slot it to hell and back for damage and hold; your primary is giving you the
debuffs you need.

Circling back around to Moonbeam... as several who have teamed with me can attest, a snipe attack is nigh-on critical for successfully using The Zen of the
Single Pull. Moonbeam is, as far as I know, not only the earliest snipe it is possible to get in the whole game, it remains awesome if slotted as a cycleable
attack. I run it in my attack chain all the time. I use it as an attack, and I use it to pull, which is handy as hell; it's arguable, but in my
experience Defenders are better for pulling than Blasters. Defenders seem to weather the initial aggro better. I've played both to 50, and that's my
experience. I have no numbers to back that up, however. (According to PWiki, both archetypes have the same base HP -- Low.)

Moonbeam to get their attention, Tenebrous Tentacles to lock them down before they get into melee range, Night Fall to soften them up (the only secondary
I've slotted for -ToHit, with a single IO; the rest is a TAoE set), then Dark Blast - Gloom - Dark Blast - oh hey, Moonbeam is recharged and they
_can't hit shit_, FIRE!

Repeat until they're gone. Smile

The thing is, they can't hit anything from just the base -ToHit alone. I haven't slotted it at all except for the single IO in Night Fall. Slot for
Damage. It's what's for Dark Dinner!

--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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#7
I haven't played dark, but I have played Rad. And reading t he comments here, they both seem function along the same general guidelines.

Primary power makes them weak and feeble

Secondary power puts them out of their misery

Slotting for damage is most definitely a valid tactic, at least for most of the powers.

I would rather slot for hold in Tentacles or knockback in Torrent, but aside from that, damage is your friend.

To echo Wire: It's called 'Dark BLAST', not 'Dark Debuff'

Being able to take out a room of +1s and +2s is something you can do. It's not going to be as fast, or as easy as a blaster or a scrapper. But it
shouldn't be an impossible task, or a marathon of pain.

(Granted, it has taken me quite some time to tweak Gamma to the point where she can waltz into those rooms and laugh, but that level of fine tuning can be
discussed later. Its not cheap)

You don't have to totally give up on the debuff of you secondary, sloting Dark Watcher's Despair is your friend: (ToHit Debuff/Recharge, ToHit
Debuff/Recharge/Endurance, Recharge/Endurance) leaves 2 or three slots for damage or damage/something else. And you can then crank them out fast enough that
only being at 50-66% damage instead of 90-95% doesn't matter.
-Terry
-----
"so listen up boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today"
TF2: Spy
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#8
Dark Miasma and Rad Emission are similar in that they do two of the same debuffs - ToHit and DamResistance. The latter, I think, is what makes it worthwhile to slot for damage while playing either set. The same applies for Sonic, and to some degree Kinetics. Because your effective damage output goes up. Granted, so does everyone else's on the team, yes, but you might as well pump out some killingz there also. Again, I really do believe a defender's damage contribution is non-trivial. Space Mage is quite capable of soloing a boss on the side if everyone else is occupied, and this can happen more than one might think.

Defenders are more effective at pulling than blasters, yes - particularly in situations like the Statesman TF where you need to separate a group of AVs or somesuch. I believe this has something to do with the lower threat rating of defenders relative to blasters...I'm not quite clear on the specifics. But it is true.

Between the two it does make Moonbeam a good choice. On the other hand, it's a matter of preferences and priorities. As I mentioned, I don't take snipe attacks myself.

Sofaspud raises a good point in that... given the base numbers of the ToHitdebuff on your attacks are actually relatively low, compared to the utility powers you have for that purpose in your primary... you are better off leaving out the slotting and simply trying to use the attacks more often for stacking purposes. I suspect this is why he feels he pretty much isn't getting hit anyway.
-- Acyl
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#9
I see. I see. I'll have to cogitate on this. Thank you.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll
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#10
A little bit of history to explain my view might help give some perspective. dp was not my first toon on red side. My first toon was a MM on Freedumb which is
stalled in the mid-20s. That MM was part of the Headstart for having pre-ordered CoV. But it was a matter of weeks, if that, that dp first appeared in Virtue.
So she was around before IOs, before pain corruptors, before lvl 50, and after the initial wave of powergamers were pushing to 40. She was also there before
Thermals were 'discovered'. She focused on healing because that's what everyone at the time was screaming for: We need a empathy set on red-side.
And between cycling her support powers, and the stacking of the to-hit debuffs inherint on them, and firing off the heal, she bearly had any time to fire off
any attacks. She would be following the brutes and targeting through them... I was learning the toon, and people were learning how to play. dp basically got
"lackey-leveled" from 0-20 on the basis of her heal and the debuffs alone.

How did dp play? She would charge in on the heals of brute or one particular stalker that thought it was a brute (EM/Nin), running shadowfall, and then as soon
as they fired off an attack, fire off a heal and plant my Tarpatch and start cycling my support powers and heals. The equalivilant would be tailing the tanker
and firing off the heal after they aggro a mob and take a hit. But that was my playstyle then and its changed since I got Fluffy. Then I went back and mal-ed
down to help some friends level up their toons.

What was dp's role? She was there to provide Heals and debuffs, to keep everyone upright, and moving forward. She was not there to do damage - that's
what everyone else did, since she was almost always lackeyed or malled to a brute or stalker.

That is why dp is built the way she is... she comes from a time when there is nothing else out there on redside that healed, and that sorta shaped my opinion a
little of Dark Miasma in relation to Corruptors and thus by extension, Defenders. The debuffs aren't visible, but they stack, and are basically
preventative. It protects the entire team from that mob while the debuff lasts.

But times have changed. And what is appropriate for Corruptors is not quite right for Defenders. Dark Miasma still is all about to hit debuffs and negative
energy damage. You just have to find the mix that suits your playstyle, the role you chose. There will be those that say Defenders are HealerZ, that Defenders
should be Buff-bots, that Defenders should do Damage, should be able to rez, should do this, should yada yada yada. Ignore them. Play the toon you want, how
you want. Pick your role and stick to it.

For the record, I do agree with what those above say regarding Rad, Sonic and like... just I -highly- doubt that you'll be able to get a Gamma out of Dark
Miasma, its a different animal to Radiation. (And I stand in awe at what sweno has been able to do on Gamma)

As for dp? She'll remain a dark healer, that's her role. But thanks to the second build one day I might work on a end game damage build.

(My apologies if the above is a little in-coherent, its late and I've just had a long day)

Shader
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