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"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies
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#2
I am speechless in all the right ways.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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#3
Watch the followup from tonight's episode as well.
-----------------
Epsilon
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#4
And this is why the Tea Party movement exists....
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
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#5
No flash player on Gevernment-owned PCs. Was this the one where Sara Palin was pointed out to be using notes written on the palm of her hand? John Stewart wasn't the only one. Not to be one-upped by a colleague, Stephen Colbert crucified her for it, too.
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#6
This is the one where they compare and contrast the Republicans slamming Obama for vacationing in Hawaii as 'elitist' and 'out of touch with the people'... while they're holding a major convention thingy there.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
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#7
He's supposed to be elitist and out of touch for vacationing in the state he's from? I think they need to replace whoever comes up with their material...
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#8
The claim was actually made that Hawaii is "too exotic and foreign" to "really be America". With the implications that Hawaiians in general are not "real Americans".

But it's just fine and dandy to visit if you're Republican.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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#9
For 99% of Americans, Hawaii pretty much -is- 'exotic and foreign'. Casting Obama in that light appeals to what the Republicans are seeing as the standard weakness of all politicians -- too much of the rich and powerful, not in touch with the common people, etc. They're trying to say "See, this guy's just another scumbag, you need to get rid of him. We're not like him." And they're not understanding that we -do- see the hypocrisy of their assertion, that we - right now especially the conservative base - do think that they're just as elitist and out of touch as the libs - and that we're going to notice them taking these little junkets and remember them when Primary time comes around.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
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#10
It may be exotic, but I don't view it as foreign. They speak English quite fluently, they're proud to be Americans, and the islands are home to one of the LARGEST Naval installations in the Pacific. How much more Americana do you need? Blonde bland boring Republican housewives setting apple pies out on their window sils to cool? I certainly hope not.
As for Obama's elitism... The Republican Party shouldn't be trying so hard in that respect. One only needs to look to the people he's appointed.
And my only real gripe about his leadership has to do with the whole Medical Benefits fiasco. He needs to place much more focus on the National Economy in general and the Republican's backlash against global warming and their attempts to take down Carbon Taxes. (This is all, yet again, Corporate America using the Republican party as a mouthpiece.)
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#11
I'm curious as to what the surprise here is. Without making snarky observations, it would be my understanding that the Republican tent has (since the 80s, anyway) been based on the four pillars of military hawks, social conservatives, the religious right and big business. Although fiscal conservatism is a frequent talking point for them, it has never been Republican policy - under Reagan and both Bushes, the deficit skyrocketed and there was certainly no real cutback of government spending. So, as much as it gives me delicious schadenfreude to watch the American right-wing splinter, I honestly can't tell where the current dissatisfaction stems from. They're the same guys they've always been, with the same priorities they've always had. Hypocrisy aside, why the fuss?
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#12
Quote:Ayiekie wrote:

They're the same guys they've always been, with the same priorities they've always had. Hypocrisy aside, why the fuss?
Probably something to do with the fact that they're always ever-so-hypocritical, and always to greater and greater levels.  For example, in the senate of one state, I forget which one off-hand (the trouble with being on a Navy ship is that you can only catch bits and pieces before you gotta get back to work), their Republican Senators had previously made more than a couple requests for Stimulus Money... and then they turn around and start sniping at our President for throwing away good money on the Stimulus package.
Maybe there was a bit more to it?  I couldn't tell for sure.  I'm still taking it with a grain of salt myself since it was the Rachel Maddow show - and ever since my experiences with the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, and Sean Hannity I take all political pundits at least somewhat lightly.
But anyhow, that's just the thing - it never changes.  And I'm not simply rooting for one side, here.  Decades ago, Nixon resigned from his office as POTUS... and all charges against him were pretty much dropped.  Really, he still could have done time for what he was responsible for because the fact remained that he did something very much illegal.  And now, closer to the present, Clinton did something that, while not strictly illegal, was highly questionable from a moral standpoint, especially so for a man in his position.  And then he tried to get out of it, which was where he really went wrong from a legal standpoint.  And in the end he gets out of it with a slap on the wrists.  *Rolls eyes*
It's why I consider myself an Independent these days.  Just remember, Democrats can piss me off, too.  *Gives the hairy eyeball to the muddle over Health Care Reform*
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#13
While we're on the topic, here's a great little link I stumbled over -- a Daily Kos post about the http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/ ... Wrote-THIS]Republican party platform of 1956. The author of the piece admits he cherry-picked the choicest bits, but he still makes a good point -- the modern Republican party is so divorced from its roots that it would consider its own members during the nigh-legendary "golden age" they like to paint the 1950s as -- a classically Republican era and practically the definition of "proper America" to them -- to be a bunch of dangerous left-wing radicals.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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#14
That's the thing, though. Change happens over the course of time. Sometimes it's just not the things we'd like to see changed. And sometimes it is. When I was in High School I was shocked that the Democratic Party of the Pre-Civil War era proudly supported slavery, but that obviously changed over time. It probably wasn't a popular change at the time the shift occured, and it was likely a gradual one; I wouldn't be surprised to see it as something like the current evolution of the Republican Party from the 1950s to Present.
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#15
I think the point, though, is that the Republicans like to claim the 1950s as "their" era, as a Republican golden age that defines what "real America" ought to be -- but the contemporary Republican Values that created that era (if you accept their claims) are almost entirely anathema to the modern Republican party -- they embrace the result but have abandoned the means that got them there.  They say, "follow us and we'll give you back what made America great before the 1960s", but they've rejected the path that brought them that greatness in favor of something entirely different.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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#16
I don't think we'll ever be able to get back to that sort of Golden Age, at least not a Republican version of it. And a Democratic version is pretty much inattainable right now because we're missing the pieces (seriously, gotta put the economy and jobs first before worrying about healthcare - talk about putting the carriage before the horse!).
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#17
Um, there's pretty good arguments to be made to the contrary, actually. I'm disappointed none of the actual conservatives responded, though.
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#18
Ayiekie, please do make your concerns known. If anything I am an open minded individual.
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#19
Ayiekie Wrote:Um, there's pretty good arguments to be made to the contrary, actually. I'm disappointed none of the actual conservatives responded, though.
What would be the point?
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#20
Logan Darklighter Wrote:What would be the point?
The fact I asked a question and it would thus be only polite to answer, and if you are a former Republican supporter who now thinks the party has changed, why wouldn't you want to explain why it's changed? I'm not going to berate you over it, I am asking because I wish to understand your position better.
Blackaeronaut, without going into excessive detail, the arguments that health care should be a primary priority for Obama right now include:
- He's already put so much time and expended so much political capital on it that backing out at this point will leave him as a lame duck president scarcely a year into his first term. Clinton eventually recovered from his similar debacle, but it's unquestionable how much authority he lost over it, to say nothing of the Democrat's disastrous showing at the midterms. Also, if this effort comes to nothing it is unlikely any other president will touch the obvious political poison pill anytime in the near future.
- It is difficult to argue with the fact that universal health care (of any sort) will, on the whole, improve the health of the general public. This has many knock-on positive effects, including but not limited to there being less running up of private debt (good for both them and the economy), and a healthier workforce which therefore takes less sick days, are more able to look for work, and are more productive at work. Therefore, a viable public healthcare program will improve the economy both through more willingness to spend money and a better workforce.
- The American health case system, as it stands, actually costs US taxpayers more per capita than many single-payer publically funded healthcare systems. To repeat myself: you are paying more per capita in taxes to support your health care system than, say, Canada is to support theirs. This is due to a variety of factors, some of which aren't directly related to it not being a single-payer system, but one major reason is that Americans, demographically, tend more than other countries to ignore small health problems until they become big ones, which then have to be treated as an emergency, which costs vastly more than it would to catch health problems before it escalates. As well, since many Americans simply cannot afford a major operation, they either use free clinics for this or default on their payments to hospitals (since they cannot refuse to treat people due to lack of funds). Now, I don't think much of Obama's plan compared to a single-payer system, but if it at ALL works out and the majority of Americans start getting check-ups and going to hospitals the way people in other countries do, then the ultimate effect will actually be to lower the amount the government is paying and reduce the deficit.
- The removal of the necessity of catastrophically expensive company-funded health care insurance will actually benefit many US companies, notably including GM and Ford. One of the primary causes (though certainly not the only one) for the collapse of those companies over the past few decades is the skyrocketing costs of the excellent health insurance plans they were obliged to pay for both current employees and all living retirees (whose costs and insurance premiums were, of course, steadily getting higher). Although truthfully I'm not certain what the current status of their health plans are given their bankruptcy and restructuring, but it's certainly true that providing expensive private health insurance has a negative impact on the bottom line and competitiveness of many American companies, and the huge drop in rates certain to follow an Obama-style health care system would be an overall benefit to them. Many companies not exactly noted for their liberal leanings actually support Obama's initiative for this reason.
There's other reasons (such as the argument there's no reason he can't be doing both, the general altruism of trying to make sure all Americans have affordable health care, et cetera), but those would be the first four to come to mind.
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#21
Okay, I can see all that. What worries me is that the Health Care bill is something that feels like is being shoved a bit to harshly through the pipeline.

The way I'm looking at it is that it is like software development, only worse. For one, this is being done by a committee that can't seem to agree on anything, while a software development is done with a much smaller group that can at least agree on more than a few things.

Also, I am horribly worried that whatever we are going to get is something that we are going to be stuck with for decades, if not the next century! This is something that is so hairy that I would not care if it took Obama's entire term in the White House to get a working Health Care bill passed.
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#22
Quote:Also, I am horribly worried that whatever we are going to get is something that we are going to be stuck with for decades, if not the next century! This is something that is so hairy that I would not care if it took Obama's entire term in the White House to get a working Health Care bill passed.
I don't think you need to worry. Judging by the example of Social Security, a bad system will get tweaked multiple times very quickly until it is at least satisfactory. As far as I'm concerned, just getting a Health Care System in place is the most important goal. Once that's done, it can be revised as needed until it works properly. But all the revision in the world won't do any good if the system never gets established.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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#23
What's worse is that the current situation doesn't feel like well- reasoned debate over the costs, benefits and drawbacks of any plan. It feels, to this admittedly far-less-informed-than-he-should-be writer, that it's a case of "Well, we don't LIKE you, NNNNNYEAH!~" on the part of the Republican Party and a bit of "well, we COULD HAVE ramrodded this through, but we don't want to abuse our filibuster-proof majority" on the part of Democrats.

Of course, I still remember that great old Popeye/Olive Oyl cartoon where she dreamed she was the first female president: She was addressing Congress and the parties were represented by Elephants and Donkeys in Business suits. Every point she made in her speech, one party said in unison "We accept it!" immediately followed by the other saying "We reject it!"
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll
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The Daily Show With Jon StewartMon - Thurs 11p / 10c
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