Molly Norris is in hiding

[nemonowan]

I can think of several involving the pastors associated with  militant
anti-abortion groups calling specifically for the murders of doctors,
and cite the assasinations carried out by their members; various
christian sects in Africa issuing proclamations in regards to killing
witches, with resulting deaths; not to metion Christian pulpits in the
former Soviet republics declaring their support for killing Muslims (and
different denominations of Christians.) Roman Catholic priests in the
Rwandan genocides using their pulpits to declare other tribes as insects
to be killed. I suppose I should have been even more
specific.

I thought it was obvious from the context that I meant here in
the United States, where we practice (and enforce) freedom of religion
(and from religion, too). I'm aware of abuses elsewhere. I'm talking
about mainstream Christianity as practiced here in North America.
(Though I hadn't heard of the bit about the Soviet Churches before.
That's interesting. Link?)

There are clergy in the US that preach this kind of things, but they usually don't have a large enough pulpit to matter.
For that, you have talk show hosts. remember Dr George Tiller?

[Logan Darklighter]

Sofaspud wrote:

F.U.D. - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.  It is what the media and the politicians bank on to whip the populace (of any country) into a frenzy.  Instead of appealing to rational thought, it appeals to the emotions.  It is a powerful tool and terrible weapon and I despise the fact that it's become the prime motivator in this "War on Terror" or whatever they want to call it this week.

(R. Dorothy Wainright) Ah. Epiphany. (/R. Dorothy Wainright)
And I don't think I've been bitten by that bug the way you think. But I do agree that it is used, and too much to justify too much in the way of government control of movement and information. (*Sigh* I'll never fly commercial ever again. Never. I love flying. But I despised the ridiculous rigamarole of Airport security checkpoints and hassle long before 9-11. I'd rather leave 3 days early and drive or take a train rather than subject myself to the hell and indignity of what it's become now. Thank god my family has a Cessna for short flights. At least until they try shutting THAT down too.)

As for peace... sure.    But I think we have some very disparate beliefs about this entire situation.

(Clarkson) Well yes. Obviously! (/Clarkson)

[hmelton]

Robkelk

Thanks, I think your right. The contradictory and vague statements about the date she went into hiding are probably there to help her hide.

Sofa

If it was politicians using F. U. D. wouldn't it be a front line news story one easily found by someone viewing the daily headlines. If the politicians were pushing the Fear and uncertainty of the muslim radicals coming to our nation to hunt Molly they should be giving speeches and promising what they would do to correct the problem, while gathering more power.

I think you and others don't realize just how desperate it is getting and how bad it can get. I've always love military history and our current world situation makes me think of the conditions just before world war II. Personally I hope I'm wrong about the pattern matching.

The Silence

What bothers me about Molly's plight is the relative silence from our human rights groups, political leaders, our major news organizations and last the so called conservative muslims.

It looks cowardly for the first three groups as Logan mentioned and provides worrying evidence that the last group is either far smaller in number or they are even more fearful than the other groups.

Where are the statements from the women's liberation movement, ACLU and many other "freedom" groups?

One interesting thing I discovered from my roughly monthly check of Fatwa being issued was that the Koran is very time based. The same appears to go for modern issued Fatwas.

In the Koran a later statement by their prophet usually takes precedent over all earlier statements.

If several or even one conservative muslim clergy would speak out and/or issue a fatwa denouncing the Kill fatwa then it would help by placing some doubt.

Where are the conservative muslim clergy speaking out against this?

I've yet to find a report of a single muslim cleric speaking out against this hate speech that is inciting other muslims to murder.

Any muslim clerics who remains silent is loud in support of this call for murder.

A muslim clerics fatwa wouldn't even have to say or imply what Molly did was okay all they would have to say is that the fatwa for her murder was going to far.

Another interesting thing I found about Sharia law is that the religious leaders modify/write the Sharia law with the fatwa they issue if no other later contradicting fatwa is issued then this murder order is law and should be followed in the nations following Sharia law.

Yes this is a simplistic interpretation, but from light reading it seems to be fairly accurate for muslim areas that have organised to the point to have local inforcers of sharia law, nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran. The silence about a Fatwa can be used as a very rough rule of thumb to measure how wide the support for a fatwa issued by a cleric in one sect is supported by the clerics and leaders of other often rival sects.

LINKS

By the way I liked all the links posted, I'm especially interested in any link where a muslim leader or cleric has specifically denounced this murder order placed on Molly.

hmelton

[Epsilon]

Logan Darklighter wrote:
I suppose I should have been even more specific. I thought it was obvious from the context that I meant here in the United States, where we practice (and enforce) freedom of religion (and from religion, too). I'm aware of abuses elsewhere. I'm talking about mainstream Christianity as practiced here in North America. (Though I hadn't heard of the bit about the Soviet Churches before. That's interesting. Link?)

Keep shifting those goalposts Logan. How about The Army of God, a radical group of Christian terrorsists responsible for many acts of anti-abortion activities within the United States. Or the American Coaltion of Life Activists who issued who were successfully tried for death threats against abortion providers. The list goes on and on, Logan.

And those pastors you mentioned here? Were they not
roundly denounced by the rest of the Church? Do most people seriously
consider them representative of Christianity as a whole? I'm speaking
largely of the majority perception here.

Muslim communites constantly denounce the activity of terrorists so don't try and pull this shit, Logan. Remember that Ground Zero Mosque guy that Fox was so upset over? He went on an interview on the Daily Show and flat out denounced terrorism. The man who issued this fatwa is no more representative of the majority of Muslims than Fred Phelps is represenative of the majority of Christians. So stop pretending like he is.
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Epsilon

[Epsilon]

By the way I liked all the links posted, I'm especially interested in any link where a muslim leader or cleric has specifically denounced this murder order placed on Molly.

"We, the undersigned, unconditionally condemn any intimidation or threats of violence directed against any individual or group exercising the rights of freedom of religion and speech; even when that speech may be perceived as hurtful or reprehensible."
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Epsilon
Five seconds on google Melton, seriously, do your own fucking homework.

[ECSNorway]

By the way I liked all the links posted, I'm especially interested in any link where a muslim leader or cleric has specifically denounced this murder order placed on Molly.

"We, the undersigned, unconditionally condemn any intimidation or threats of violence directed against any individual or group exercising the rights of freedom of religion and speech; even when that speech may be perceived as hurtful or reprehensible."
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Epsilon

*reads article. smiles. is pleased.*
Let's see a few million more of those, please, Islam.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Epsilon]

Number of hits on "Muslims Denounce Violence" on google: 11,600,000. Even if only 10% (and its more like 60% actual denunciations and 40% calls for denunciation) of those hits are actual Muslims denoucning violence that 10 million articles like the one I posted.
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Epsilon

[hmelton]

Thanks Epsilon I've been trying different words in several search engines.

here is a couple of links in support of her.
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http://voices.washingtonp...of_molly_norris_pul.html
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http://dailycaller.com/20...cartoonist-molly-norris/
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hmelton

[Ayiekie]

*reads article. smiles. is pleased.*
Let's see a few million more of those, please, Islam.

So why aren't you yourself apologising and denouncing the actions of Christian hate groups, and why are not all Christian leaders, politicians, and public figures expected to do so? Don't you realise that anything any Christian does is representative and emblematic of all Christians?

[hmelton]

I was distracted over the weekend from Molly's plight by a fanfic, but tonight I've been playing with a couple of search engines using various two or three word combinations to see how many hits a couple of search engines would turn up.

Something Epsilon said gave me an idea and had me wondering if I could get anything out of the number of hits returned. It doesn't look like the idea had any value.

The first word set was "Christian violence" in Goggle and Yahoo. Note I picked these two search engines because both had easy to find listing for the number of hits.

Y=Yahoo G=Goggle

Christian violence Y 33,900,000 G 7,510,000 : Muslim violence Y17,200,000 G 24,500,000 : Communism violence Y 3,960,000 G 2,930,000

KKK violence Y 560,000 G 1,120,000 : buddha violence Y 2,230,000 G 2,110,000 : Nazi violence Y 8,570,000 G 5,810,000

molly norris Y 1,540,000 G 1,930,000

tribal violence Y 8,820,000 Y 297,000 : Green violence Y 40,800,000 G 35,000,000 : Fruit violence Y 18,000,000 G 8,550,000

Purple violence Y 14,500,000 G 3,800,000 : barney violence Y 1,860,000 G 1,750,000

Pink hearts violence Y 7,430,000 G 281,000 : Teletubby violence Y 9,990 G 1,740,000

At this point I quit it wasn't telling me anything... well the hit numbers weren't telling me anything some of the hits I read were strange, scary and interesting.

Fruit violence and Green violence were supposed to be a sort of reference searches, but that didn't seem to work so I tried purple violence and when I glanced at a few samples the idea collapsed completely.

It did turn up one interesting related thought or possible fact.

Religion gets blamed and is responsible for a lot of deaths in the last 100 years, but it looks like communism is the big killer at least in the last 100 years.

I also picked up a large number of useless thoughts and facts?

What kind of person names their child Fruit, Purple or Teletubby?

Barney shot the Teletubbies?

I'm still interested in the Molly Norris story, if anyone comes across something that didn't make the headlines post it here I'd be interested in reading the link.

hmelton

[hmelton]

It also didn't show up in newspapers. Now I"m wondering just how much is not being reported out of fear.

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http://www.mediaite.com/o...moving-muhammad-cartoon/

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hmelton