S. Dakota Repubs Want To Legalize Murder of Abortion Doctors

[Wiregeek]

Personally, I think it is part of a deliberate wedge strategy to undermine the availability of abortion and the safety of abortion providers.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

[Epsilon]

... But there's another law needed for pregnant women to defend themselves using lethal force?

This doesn't seem to add up.

Exactly.
-------------
Epsilon

[Bob Schroeck]

In some ways, this is even a worse twist: if I remember what I read correctly, there is only one abortion provider in all of South Dakota, and the politicians involved certainly know it; that means that the revisions to this law basically were intended to drive this one doctor out of SD by making it too dangerous for him to stay, or to see to it that he is killed and no one else opens up a practice in his place.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Morganite]

Uh, no, not exactly. I don't see how the original law could be applied to anything outside of direct self-defense. So, is your suggestion that they started with the original law, then amended it into an entirely different law, as some kind of strategy? Would that even make sense? Or have there been cases where pregnant women using lethal force in self-defense *weren't* covered under existing laws?

-Morgan.

[Rev Dark]

By creating legislation that declare the fetus to a completely separate legal entity from the mother.  The mother can defend it.  Then bystanders... The slim tip of the wedge gaining purchase so that the thicker portion can be driven in.

[Black Aeronaut]

There is something else we're not looking at here. What is easier? To change the wording of a bill to something absolutely outlandish so it's easier to get rid of? Or the old fashioned way of good old debate?

Someone wanted this bill (in it's original wording) killed... and they sure as hell killed it.

Also, there are cases where a law like this would have been helpful. Say you have a woman whose husband beats her within an inch of her life and she is pregnant? What if she gets a gun and kills him? Unless the man is about to use a weapon on her (stick, knife, gun) the self-defense plea is shaky grounds. It's unfortunate, but true - we've all seen cases like this where it looks like it could go one way or another. And it was all done because the woman did not want to lose her baby because her husband kicked her in the stomach.

This law would offer such battered woman cases protection.

[CattyNebulart]

On the self defense clause, for it to be self defense it must be an imminent threat to your or someone else, you (or the victim) must be unable to get away and the force you respond with must be proportionate.

So if some bully's are beating up a kid getting out a gun and shooting in not a legal response. If they are going after him with knives or you have other reason to believe there is an immediate lethal threat the gun might be an appropriate response, depending on other factors.

Similarly if the woman is getting beaten and comes back later with a gun it's not self defense, and not even this law would change that. If the woman can run away, call the police or incapacitate the guy, or can use anything less than lethal force shooting the guy is not self defense.

I'm so tired of people not understanding what self defense is. If someone punches you the appropriate (and legal) response is _*NOT*_ to take out a minigun and mow down his entire family.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[Rev Dark]

[b]http[url=http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/nebraska-justifiable-homicide-abortion-bill][/url]://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/nebraska-justifiable-homicide-abortion-bill
[/b]Another woman-hating Republican douche-canoe.
Catty, you are quite right on self defense; though I should mention the caveat.  For women, being attacked by a man, there is a great deal of leeway in terms of force continuum response.  Pretty much anything and everything goes provided that you don't leave the scene obtain a weapon (say a large rock) and come back to bash a skull in.  There are some areas of the States that have specialized conditions in regards to force continuum response;  home invasion and carjacking being two that come immediately to mind.
Like others of its loathesome ilk, this is wedge strategy legislation.  Legally recognizing the fetus seperately from the mother and providing an encouragment to anti-abortion murderers.
Mark Christensen should hang his head in shame; but he doesn't have any.  This feculent arse-hat is opposed to abortion in the case of rape.  He is opposed to it in saving the life of the mother (he is willing to cede of tubal pregnancies).  He is opposed to it in the case of incest.
Gits.

[Wiregeek]

next step, legislating footwear and proximity to food preparation areas.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

[Logan Darklighter]

This does seem to be a case of trying to "wedge" the issue. I've thought about this some more since last I posted and I've come to the conclusion that I'm against even the more benign versions of these bills, because they are duplicating and adding unnecessary complications to existing laws concerning self-defense. We already have plenty of laws and rules governing self-defense. And I think to be consistent with my "less government is better" stance, that this needs to be opposed both because it's complicating the legal code and because it's an obvious political strategy that's being couched as a self-defense measure for pregnant women when it really isn't about that at all.
And I don't like either democrats or republicans trying to pull that kind of underhanded crap.
(And BTW Rev? I know you're passionate about these sorts of things, but could you please
tone down the name-calling and teeth-knashing? Recommendation: Don't post angry. Compose post in notepad. Curse and swear and go all out. Leave it for 24 hours. Come back to it. See if you still feel the same way or if it would advance your argument to sound that angry. I try to do that myself these days.)

[Wiregeek]

http://motherjones.com/po...stifiable-homicide-bills

BTW, Rev?

Post angry. Grip your testicles firmly in your hand and _twist_. These ignorant fucks are trying to make women into chattel, and it's both disgusting and infuriating.

If you need a copy of Transmetropolitan I'll ship one out. Print it, Grind it, Mix it with Mescaline and inject it directly into the hatred lobe of your brain.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

[SilverFang01]

I don't think that these people care one tenth of one damn about the consequences of their actions.
[/url][url=http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110306/NEWS10/103060331]Woman Forced To Watch Her Baby Die Because Nebraska Anti-Abortion Law Prohibited Doctor From Acting

[Rev Dark]

http://motherjones.com/po...bill-irs-abortion-audits
And it just keeps getting better.  And by better, I actually mean that those misogynist dick-waffles are using every tool they can lay their hands on to persecute those who have abortions.  So not better at all.  Worse.
Seriously,  at this rate they are going to go biblical - okay, even more biblical - and enforce parental visitation rights for rapists, or outright purchase of the rape victim for a few pieces of silver (Yes, buying your rape victim is approved of in the bible - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 for those reading along at home, wait for the burning bush to go BEEEP before turning the page.)
Every time one of these woman-hating, bible-thumping, bags of patriarchal hate and control freak fantasy steps up to the plate, they should be booed out of the stadium.
And Logan, nothing I write, no vitriol, no excessive use of the eff-word, cee-word, dee-word or zed-word could approach the sheer vile nature of these gaping, jesus-humping, peckerwoods.
Oh... and you wrote.

I won't cut and paste here, but will kindly redirect you to the post about the unfortunate series of break-ins that you suffered through

When it is your personal life that is rudely invaded by shameless dickheads,  the passion, name-calling, teeth-gnashing and threats, are in full view.  Allow others their passions.

[Logan Darklighter]

http://motherjones.com/po...bill-irs-abortion-audits

Kee-rist... Ok. This FAILS any standard of "limited government" in my book. And yeah, this is really reprehensible.

And Logan, nothing I write, no vitriol, no excessive use of the
eff-word, cee-word, dee-word or zed-word could approach the sheer vile
nature of these gaping, jesus-humping, peckerwoods.
Oh... and you wrote.

I
won't cut and paste here, but will kindly redirect you to the post
about the unfortunate series of break-ins that you suffered through

When
it is your personal life that is rudely invaded by shameless
dickheads,  the passion, name-calling, teeth-gnashing and threats, are
in full view.  Allow others their passions.

Alright, fair enough. I find it difficult under most circumstances to feel that level of personal outrage UNLESS something directly happens to me or a loved one. I mean I can and DO get angry. But maybe it's at one remove otherwise? I'm not sure. I do know it's VERY rare for my temper to show like that. I'm not sure if that is a failing or not. But if you're really that passionate about it, I guess I understand.
If it's not getting too personal (and if it is, feel free to tell me to go to hell), does this in fact directly effect you or someone you know?