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Rand Paul: Why is Apple being hauled before Congress to explain its perfectly legal tax minimization scheme?
Rand Paul: Why is Apple being hauled before Congress to explain its perfectly legal tax minimization scheme?
#1
Hey Dartz - here's one that should amuse you. Heh. 
The background is straightforward: Congressional investigators discovered that Apple's been using an unusually complex -- but apparently perfectly legal, and decidedly clever --  cluster of international tax shelters to lower its tax burden. For example, they have a holding company incorporated in Ireland that keeps its bank accounts in the U.S.; because Ireland assesses residency based on where the company's assets are while the U.S. assesses residency based on place of incorporation, the holding company effectively exists nowhere for tax purposes. Apple saved $44 billion since 2009 from tricks like this, which, averaged over four years, means the lost tax revenue last year could have paid for a single day of federal spending. But again -- all perfectly legal. Even if you think it shouldn't be, you run into Paul's point in the second clip, namely, why not just have a Senate debate on tax reform rather than try to shame Apple with hearings for doing what literally anyone else in their position would have done (potentially at the risk of being ousted by shareholders if they didn't)?What's especially bizarre about this is Democrats attempting to make an example of a company that's universally respected for its innovation, even among the lowest of low-information voters. If you want to demagogue corporations for lightening their tax load, politics 101 says to find a company that's far removed from the average joe or, at least, whose product reliably produces grumbles about the cost or quality. Defense contractors and oil companies are always easy marks. Instead they chose the one corp above all others whose products nearly everyone likes, and whose late founder has become a symbol for can-do entrepreneurial success -- a point Paul was shrewd in emphasizing today:
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I guess the Dems figured that it'd be better to focus on a household name so that people would pay extra attention to the hearings. I think that's a miscalculation. We'll see.





The fault doesn't lie with Apple and the completely misbegotten sense of patriotism that they are ostensibly supposed to display by pouring as much money as they possibly can into the federal government's coffers; rather, it lies with our wildly burdensome and noncompetitive tax code that gives companies a clear incentive to do otherwise. We are living in an increasingly global economy, and we better man up and deal with it -- and I do not mean by persecuting the individual companies looking to streamline their taxes, because watch them close up shop and move abroad at your own peril.
Ireland is one of the supposed culprits that Apple used to their tax-strategery advantage, and while the country certainly has a heck of a lot of economic and fiscal problems on their hands, there is nothing illicit going on with low rates that make it appealing for multinational companies to do business there. An Irish official today paid the obligatory lip service to the trumped-up need for ‘robust international agreements' to prevent tax-dodging to appease the Euro-bureaucrats, but they are not apologizing for having a tax code that attracts people and companies to their shores -- nor should they. Via the NYT:
Quote:Deputy Prime Minister Eamon Gilmore of Ireland told reporters in Brussels on Tuesday that his government supported efforts to close "loopholes" in corporate taxation, but said these did not stem from Irish taxation policy. ...
Ireland's corporate tax rate is 12.5 percent, less than half the level in many larger European countries. American companies with their European headquarters in Ireland often pay considerably less than this on their European earnings because of accounting techniques that permit them to shift revenue to subsidiaries in offshore tax havens -- as Apple has been accused of doing in a report prepared by Congressional investigators. ...
While Ireland misses out on some tax revenue, analysts say its economy more than makes up for this in other ways, including the tens of thousands of jobs that American technology companies have created there – and the income taxes that well-paid programmers and executives contribute to the Irish treasury. Apple alone employs more than 4,000 workers in Ireland, while Google employs more than 2,500 there. ...
Discrepancies like this have given rise to growing frustration among European policy makers at a time when governments are cutting budgets and struggling to make ends meet.
Of course, august European financiers and political leaders are saying that we all need a "global solution" to prevent multinational companies from exploiting loopholes, blah blah blah -- but they are too often going about this "globalization" thing in precisely the wrong way (more central planning imposed upon an ever-wider swath of people? No. A free and open global economy across all fronts? Yes.). I've got your solution right here, and it's called competition, which works just as well among individuals and private companies as it does countries and currencies. All of this talk about punishing companies that dare to seek legal means to decrease their tax burden and the countries that shelter them is nothing but antithetical to economic growth and a global free market.

But for US Democrats and Europeon socialists (but I repeat myself) there's really only one viable solution - tax Ireland! (I'm kidding, of course. But you never know when reality will overtake parody...)

As for me, if it isn't already obvious - I applaud Apple's ingenuity and Ireland's decision to be competitive. When your choice is paying the Irish 12.5% on offshore earnings vs. the IRS's 35% on same, almost three times as much, this Texan's ready to share a pint and a "top ‘o the mornin' to ye!" Big Grin
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#2
It's not small thing to say that tax rate is the only thing keeping the rock from going Greek.

They get the money back from the worker's pockets... personal tax rates are excruciatingly high. Once you sum everything up, including stuff like VAT and Income tax, it's not hard to see 60-70% of what some people earn making its way to the Government coffers through various manners - some of which you may not even be aware of as it goes. A good chunk of *that* goes straight to a few banks, before going on to the continent. In a way, they have found a way to tax the country. But ultimately, it means that unemployment is 'only' 14% and not bouncing off 25% like Greece. It still means something like 25% of people under 30 are on the live register, but at least that's not 50%.

The downside is, such high personal tax rates and taxations cripple the smaller businesses that can't afford to pay enough to make a living wage. Depending on the part of the country you're in, between 10 and 20% of prime retail space is lying idle. So it is a real case of swings and roundabouts. Dropping personal taxes in this situation really isn't possible and it won't be for a long time. We also have a large civil service as there're a number of things that are just economically unviable to run on a for-profit basis, yet are necessary for national stability.

The real catch that makes it work - zero taxation on transfer pricing between subsidiaries - is also the exact same thing keeping the people I work for afloat, as they can buy products from a sister company who gets a better rate from a supplier than we would at cost.

Still, the corporate tax regime is pretty transparent... compared to the mewling morass of loopholes that the US is anyway. 12.5% is the flat rate - there're a few rebates for certain actions. If you hire someone who's been unemployed for more than a year, you don't have to make their social contributions for a year - for example. A good accountant spending time trawling the IRS tax code would easily find a way to knock a US-registered company's tax liabilities down a peg beneath the 35% mark - or even find a way to make the government owe them money. That's not even failing to account for the fact that 2% of several billion means far more to an economy of our size that 35% of several billion means in the US. The cost of paying the taxes for the employees is a negligeable addition to this number.

For an economy as large as the US, I'm not sure it'd work as well however. While the tax take from those 4000 employees means a lot to us.... it won't make much of a dent in the US federal budget. We can run with such low rates precisely because we're a small enough country to be able to afford to do so and make it work. I doubt it'd work in Germany or France either.

It's also pissing off the entire civilised world. Australia hates it. I had great fun watching David Cameron talk himself through loops, complaining about low taxation, while saying it's our right to have lower taxation anyway, but hauling Google before parliament. This is, perhaps, what pleases me most. It's the one thing the EU really tried to kill during the baillout negotiations and the one thing the government has clung on to like a limpet.
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--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
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#3
Argh... too much text to read so late at night. I'll go through all this in detail later...

Basically, my thoughts from what I've been hearing from NPR is that this is all just formalized throat clearing from Capitol Hill before they kick off another round of talking turkey on taxation. Honestly, I'm not looking forward to this because everybody and their mother is going to be out keep those special interest tax exemptions or even get new ones entirely.

Really, there isn't going to be a hell of a lot that can be done to trim the budget. Military spending can't really be cut by too much. It's a foregone conclusion that if you're not careful you can easily cut into the meat and bone of the US Armed Forces. (Witness the clusterfuck that was the US Navy's 'Optimal Manning' once they decided to enforce it. Sorry about that, USS Port Royal!) And that's to say nothing about things like pensions, MGIB, and health care for military families.

Bad enough they're closing schools for military children. Don't even dare try and say that the public schools are good enough - that might be true, but they tend to be miles out from base housing. Far enough in most cases that school districts will feel uncomfortable paying for all that gas to bus those kids. And this isn't even getting into how much strain on an already strained system these extra children are gonna exert.

Honestly, I don't side with Corporate America. They put a figurehead into the White House, stopped caring about the American Worker as much as they could legally get away with, and made more than a few metric fucktons of cash in the process. The least they can do is invest some of that money into the nation that has made their successes possible, and I ain't talking about China.
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#4
Quote:Really, there isn't going to be a hell of a lot that can be done to trim the budget. Military spending can't really be cut by too much.

The military budget is the only one where there are easy cuts to be made, though now is not exactly the time to add tens of thousands of defence contractors to the unemployment pool. Still that needs to be done eventually, the US military should be able to get by on a tenth of it's budget, it would still be outspending everyone else by a fair margin. Of course I am not suggesting a decrease that big quickly.

And in the pay for soldiers and their benefits is one of the few areas where I would support increased spending.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
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#5
Honestly, I'd just like to see prices quoted to the DoD by contractors become more competitive with prices for similar things in the private sector.

Back on topic.

Logan, I don't see what Apple is doing as innovative at all. Really, it seems more like a money laundering scheme than anything else - moving money from one bank to another just to avoid unwanted attention. You know who does stuff like that? Drug lords.

Okay, enough incendiary commentary from me. Really, it's not like Apple is being sent off to the gallows or anything like that. They won't even be penalized. This whole dog and pony show is just to gain a better understanding of the hows and whys of what Apple did, and maybe get a few ideas for a resolution to corporate taxes that everyone finds to be reasonable.
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#6
Compromise in the current political climate? Where everyone agrees on something being reasonable?

''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll
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#7
I came across an interesting article arguing that this is basically a shakedown because Apple doesn't play Washington's game.
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