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The Charlie Hebdo Jihad comes to America...
05-04-2015, 09:57 AM
But the Jihadists made the monumental mistake of choosing TEXAS to launch their assault.
Quote:Two armed men were killed after opening fire on a security guard outside an exhibit of artistic depictions of the Muslim prophet Muhammad in suburban Dallas Sunday evening.
The city of Garland said in a statement posted on its Facebook page that the men drove up to the Curtis Culwell Center and began shooting at the security officer. Garland Police Department officers returned fire, killing both gunmen, the statement said.
The wounded officer is okay and was discharged from the hospital. As of now, the gunman are still lying by the car, their bodies and the vehicle being checked robotically for explosives.
The event was organized by blogger and anti-terrorism activist Pam Geller, who has needed to deal with security concerns for a long, long time. Fortunately the precautions paid off. Unfortunately they were necessary.
At the moment, nothing is known about the identities of the perpetrators. But I can make a reasonably educated guess about a few things.
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Heh.
"The would-be terrorists in Garland fell for one of the classic blunders: Never assume that you’ve outgunned an art show in Texas."
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Sad but true comment:
"If the initial reports are accurate, expect this to be quickly passed over by the media within the space of a day. There's nobody they want to blame, they have a plausible out because there's no real body count, and there isn't even the satisfaction of gloating over dead Texans."
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Yeah, great. Now they're dead and we have no way of learning whether they were lone-wolf or part of an organization. And if they are part of an organization, they're martyrs to their cause.
We have to take these people alive, damnit.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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And we wouldn't have anyway seeing as CAIR would have had them lawyered up before they were even booked.
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No we do NOT have to keep them alive. We can find out whatever we need to find out by examining where they live and what they've been doing online from their computers. (As they are now doing with the one perp's apartment in Phoenix, AZ.)
I'd rather they have a short headline, a quick burial, and be forgotten in short order than taking up space in jail, money out of the governments pocket, and get to say ANYTHING the media would report.
They want to die for Allah? Fine. Our job should be to facilitate the meeting in as efficient a manner as possible. Every time.
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From what I've read they were well and truly out-gunned, a SWAT team was waiting for trouble inside but a security guard and a off-duty cop got to them first.
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The one thing that worries me is that this organization that was being targeted...
... Let's just say that, in a ways, I don't really blame them for targeting this particular group.
They are not simply anti-terrorist.
They are explicitly Anti-Islamist.
And they don't just mean radical-extremist-fundamentalist Islam. They want Islam as a whole to cease existing.
Don't believe me? http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... on-contest
As an American who wholeheartedly believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights... I find that to be utterly repugnant. And I deeply hope that this does not give this group, which is odious at best and a hate group at worst, any more ammunition...
But I fear that to be a vain hope.
PS: No, I am not supporting terrorism. I'm glad these guys got fucked sideways with a lethal case of lead poisoning. Just.... uggghhhh...
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Logan Darklighter Wrote:...
They want to die for Allah? Fine. Our job should be to facilitate the meeting in as efficient a manner as possible. Every time. I thought we weren't supposed to give terrorists what they want.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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Quote:Black Aeronaut wrote:
The one thing that worries me is that this organization that was being targeted...
... Let's just say that, in a ways, I don't really blame them for targeting this particular group.
They are not simply anti-terrorist.
They are explicitly Anti-Islamist.
And they don't just mean radical-extremist-fundamentalist Islam. They want Islam as a whole to cease existing.
Don't believe me? http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... on-contest
As an American who wholeheartedly believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights... I find that to be utterly repugnant. And I deeply hope that this does not give this group, which is odious at best and a hate group at worst, any more ammunition...
But I fear that to be a vain hope.
PS: No, I am not supporting terrorism. I'm glad these guys got fucked sideways with a lethal case of lead poisoning. Just.... uggghhhh...
I keep getting the feeling that the organizers wanted an attack.
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Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
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And the devil will burn!
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Quote:ordnance11 wrote:
Quote:Black Aeronaut wrote:
The one thing that worries me is that this organization that was being targeted...
... Let's just say that, in a ways, I don't really blame them for targeting this particular group.
They are not simply anti-terrorist.
They are explicitly Anti-Islamist.
And they don't just mean radical-extremist-fundamentalist Islam. They want Islam as a whole to cease existing.
Don't believe me? http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... on-contest
As an American who wholeheartedly believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights... I find that to be utterly repugnant. And I deeply hope that this does not give this group, which is odious at best and a hate group at worst, any more ammunition...
But I fear that to be a vain hope.
PS: No, I am not supporting terrorism. I'm glad these guys got fucked sideways with a lethal case of lead poisoning. Just.... uggghhhh...
I keep getting the feeling that the organizers wanted an attack.
So basically you're saying that if she didn't want to invite rape, she shouldn't have worn that short skirt.
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And by "SHE" I mean WESTERN CIVILIZATION. And by RAPE I mean JIHAD. And by SHORT SKIRT I mean THE EXERCISE OF FREE SPEECH HERE IN FUCKING AMERICA.
I'm quickly losing any and all respect for ANYONE who attaches a "BUT" to "I'm all for free speech."
If you say anything even close to "I'm all for free speech, but..."
Or the equally execrable, "Free speech aside, why would they incite Muslims to do this?"
Then you are NOT for free speech!
Further - to imply that we must not "incite" Muslims is to assume that they as a collective are incapable of making moral decisions and we should treat them like animals who always behave on instinct!
NEWS FLASH. Plenty of Muslims who are good and decent people are fully capable of letting these things slide just as much as Christians and Jews are tolerant of being mocked.
It's true that I believe that Islam is deeply flawed to its core - moreso than any other religion in the world and a strict reading of its passages DOES encourage "holy war" - but the fact remains that most moderate "secularized" Muslims in the west are as horrified as any of us over these attacks. And for me to ALSO make assumptions about the entire population of Muslims is wrong.
So in painting Geller and her group with this "incitement" brush, you are also back-handedly insulting Muslims as well and "infantilize" an entire culture by assuming that they as a whole can't restrain themselves.
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Two crazy hate groups are shooting at each other.
Well, it beats having them shoot at somebody decent and humane.
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"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
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Quote:Logan Darklighter wrote:
So in painting Geller and her group with this "incitement" brush, you are also back-handedly insulting Muslims as well and "infantilize" an entire culture by assuming that they as a whole can't restrain themselves.
No, I'm not painting them with the 'Incitement' brush. I'm painting them with the 'Hate Group' brush. You know, the same one I use for Black Panthers and Ku Klux Klan and ISIS and so on and so forth.
Free speech is free speech. I would prefer, though, if it were not used as an EXCUSE to spread hatred.
Oh, and I never said anything about incitement. Those are your words, and yours alone. However, if we're gonna run with that, let's run it to the hilt.
Quote:And by "SHE" I mean WESTERN CIVILIZATION. And by RAPE I mean JIHAD. And by SHORT SKIRT I mean THE EXERCISE OF FREE SPEECH HERE IN FUCKING AMERICA.
They hired extra security. They knew very well what they were doing. This is like a someone proclaiming to be a feminist while strutting through a bad neighborhood dressed up like a cheap whore while snipers watch from the roof tops and shoot anyone that tries anything. And then going on to say, "See! Men are disgusting pigs and should all be eliminated!"
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Quote:Logan Darklighter wrote:
I'm quickly losing any and all respect for ANYONE who attaches a "BUT" to "I'm all for free speech."
You may want to qualify that statement Logan. Even the US Supreme court has attached MANY "but"s to "free speech"...
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Logan Darklighter Wrote:And by "SHE" I mean WESTERN CIVILIZATION. ... Western Civilization holds the right to due process and a fair trial to be very important - perhaps more important than freedom of expression. Being shot by police officers denies people that right. And considering the recent history of black people being shot by US police officers, I have to ask to see proof that these two were actually firing on the officer(s) who shot them.
--
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"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
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Quote:robkelk wrote:
Quote:Logan Darklighter wrote:
And by "SHE" I mean WESTERN CIVILIZATION. ...
Western Civilization holds the right to due process and a fair trial to be very important - perhaps more important than freedom of expression. Being shot by police officers denies people that right. And considering the recent history of black people being shot by US police officers, I have to ask to see proof that these two were actually firing on the officer(s) who shot them.
These men were ill-intentioned. They opened fire on a security guard with automatic weapons with no provocation. At that point, there's no negotiating anything. The appropriate response for a peace officer is to draw their weapon, aim for center of mass, fire, and keep firing until they are down. They don't even have to give a warning.
Due process went flying out the window in flames the moment those men opened fire.
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... I just hope one day, we can find a cure for religion. For a mental illness it's remarkably contagious.
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woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
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Muslims have every right to be offended by this art display.
They have every right to tell each other "Man, those Texas guys are jerks."
They have every right to bring a lawsuit in a Texas court saying "Hey, this is wrong and bad," and get laughed out of court as they should be.
BlackAeronaut Wrote:These men were ill-intentioned. They opened fire on a security guard with automatic weapons with no provocation. At that point, there's no negotiating anything. The appropriate response for a peace officer is to draw their weapon, aim for center of mass, fire, and keep firing until they are down. They don't even have to give a warning.
Due process went flying out the window in flames the moment those men opened fire.
This.
These men chose to overreact, grievously.
They chose to resort to violence without even beginning to consider other courses of action.
They chose to use lethal force against people who had not initiated violence, had not taken up arms against them.
The problem is that this is the course that a large number of muslims choose every single time something causes them even minor offense.
Because they know they cannot defeat us militarily, so they must find other means to defeat us.
And by "us" I mean "all non-muslims".
It is a basic tenet of the muslim faith that all others must be forcibly converted to islam or killed.
Offenses against the 'true faith' cannot be tolerated.
Compounding this problem is the cultural aspect. The people who do these kinds of things come from a very tribal, very fierce culture. It is more akin to that of inner-city street gangs than any found elsewhere in the west. To their mindset, a non-violent response is a show of weakness, inviting further attacks. This is why diplomacy with the middle east runs into so much trouble. We try to compromise and negotiate, and they see an opening to press for more concessions.
What it comes down to, in the end, is that yes, there is indeed a cultural war going on. A war between freedom and liberty, and oppression every bit as grim and hateful as fascism and communism.
Was the Texan group wrong to put on the show they did, knowing that they would offend? Perhaps.
Did they have a legal right to do so? Absolutely.
To the two men who decided that it was right and proper to respond to it with bloodshed, it was not a minor insult. It was an act of war every bit as much as the bombing of a city or the invasion of a nation.
And THAT is, to me, wrong, offensive, hateful, and despicable.
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Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
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One observation the two attackers were known wannabe jihadists. This case falls under what some people are calling the known wolf attack versus the lone wolf out of nowhere.
Also a constitutional opinion from a constitutional law professor as to freedom of speech as relates to the attack...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo ... amendment/
--Werehawk--
My mom's brief take on upcoming Guatemalan Elections "In last throes of preelection activities. Much loudspeaker vote pleading."
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