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Buffy Step Question
05-04-2005, 10:10 PM
So, I'm curious about something, Bob.
Would Glory actually qualify as a God to Doug? Or just a Very Powerful Demon? (and, though it's not really relevant...what would he make of Illyria?)
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Murmur the Fallen
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Apparently this post is missing and cannot be restored.
You know, I'd like the answer to that question.
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Thank the hacker four years ago for the missing stuff. Glory is a Celestial to be sure. God/demon? Good question. The series specifically calls her a god.
There's a difference between gods and demons in the DW cosmology -- more than just a political disagreement, less than a matter of fundamental nature.
Glory? She's a third side.
(Edit: Just to make the thread a bit easier to read, I deleted all but one of the hacker-destroyed messages. The one I left to make sure Murmur's post
still makes sense.)
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Quote: Bob Schroeck wrote:
Thank the hacker four years ago for the missing stuff. Glory is a Celestial to be sure. God/demon? Good question. The series specifically calls her a god.
There's a difference between gods and demons in the DW cosmology -- more than just a political disagreement, less than a matter of fundamental nature.
Glory? She's a third side.
(Edit: Just to make the thread a bit easier to read, I deleted all but one of the hacker-destroyed messages. The one I left to make sure Murmur's post
still makes sense.)
There is, however, not a particular difference between gods and demons in the Buffyverse. Given the cosmological setup in the Warriorverse setting, where the
manifestation is a small part of an Overgod, might this not be an axiom of the Buffyverse. One that would, no doubt, give Doug fits.
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Quote:Glory is a Celestial to be sure. God/demon? Good question. The series specifically calls her a god. There's a difference between gods and demons in the DW cosmology -- more than just a political disagreement, less than a matter of fundamental nature. Glory? She's a third side.
Given the way that the series treated matters Celestial, I've always felt that the cosmology of the Buffyverse was.. primitive?
Not the best term, but still...
a blarg. not canon.
Quote:Magesight was a terrifying thing sometimes. Looking at my CO, Wetter Hexe, with it always was slightly intimidating - she's on my side (or to be more accurate, I'm on hers), but she's still a full blown Manifestation. In Magesight, I can almost see the golden triple-helix of her Celestial power.
Looking at Dawn, on the other hand, was like staring into a carbon-arc lamp with a dirty pane. The 'Celestial' marker was there in full force - and powerful as all get out. But the 'look' of the aura was different. More 'supernormal' than 'godly'. Immensely powerful, but somehow primitive. Which didn't mean less dangerous. a Neanderthal with a club can still smash your skull in, and they're _sneaky_ little bastards...
I'll try and re-address this when my brain's spinning at normal RPM 8 P
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Mm. Not what we were planning, but maybe worth stealing...
-- Bob
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something popped earlier - I believe that the Celestials in the OMG step are established as having a triple helix in 'Celestial' colors/demonic colors,
yes?
Then the Buffy 'gods' would be Celestial/Demonic colored double helices. Seeing as how they can interbreed and all....
(my understanding of the Buffyverse is sadly rotten and old in my brainmeats, I may be completely incorrect about anything)
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IIRC, every single 'demon' that Buffy ever fought other than the mayor was actually a lesser hybrid of demon and human. The mayor was a human who
ascended to 'pure' demon status. I think that 'pure' demons and hellgods such as Glory are exponentially more powerful than the run of the mill
demonic threat. After all, Buffy needed to destroy an entire building to kill the mayor while she was utterly unable to kill Glory. Illyria brags that she was
once a god to gods and that she lived multiple existances at once. This puts her closer to Doug's concept of godhood than beings such as Glory, but Illyria
was still much more limited than a real god, since she had a finite number of multiple existances.
Perhaps in the Buffyverse quantity trumped quality. Hordes of lesser powers managed to overcome the virtually infinite powers of the true gods, banishing some
entirely from that particular universe while others retreated to safety and work only through champions.
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Wiredgeek Wrote:Then the Buffy 'gods' would be Celestial/Demonic colored double helices. Seeing as how they can interbreed and all.... Actually, no. All creatures with any level of sentience have the triple helix -- it's just that the strands are only powerful enough for Doug to distinguish them separately in Celestials.
Shepherd Wrote:since she had a finite number of multiple existances. In one closely-braided skein of universes... Consider Illyria something closer to Belldandy without a Limiter.
-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Remember, in the Buffy verse, there are gods and Gods. Its hinted at that Glory to Illyria was like Buffy to Glory.
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I'm inclined to define that difference as, well, Glory is a standard Celestial incarnation... and Illyria was an Overself. That's not a definitive
pronouncement, though, especially as Illyria will be Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Picture and thus has no need of precise defining within the framework of the DW
cosmology.
-- Bob
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...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Besides, no matter what we categorized her as, she'd object.
"I reject your cosmology, and substitute my own!"
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Sucrose Octanitrate.
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