Sailor Moon and Time Spent Doing Things

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, I'll admit it -- I'm minorly hooked on the live action Sailor Moon series. It's of uneven quality, and some of the stuff is really cringeworthy, and most of the youma look like they came out of the Ultraman extras lounge, but there's something rather ... enchanting and earnest about it that I like.
Anyway, as part of the occasional development effort for the Sailor Moon DW Step, I've been looking to see how the latest series handles the time spent on transformations and attacks. It probably won't surprise anyone that it's inconsistent. But despite that, it seems to make a bit more sense than what I've seen in the anime. Presumably, after more than ten years, Takeuchi (who is directly involved in the show) has begun to address some of the earlier inconsistencies -- but not everything is perfect yet.
It would appear that the fancy windups for attacks are... dramatic license. While most of the time we see the whole complicated schmear of colors and funky body contortions, there are a few instances when we're "outside" of that point of view and can actually see what the Senshi are doing as if we're an observer on the spot. The attacks are pretty much near-instantaneous: as much time as it takes to cock the hands into the right position and yell the name. Most notably, we see Mars and Mercury both do this -- just a little wind-up, then yell, flick a hand and zap. Maybe five seconds, maybe less. Even more noteworthy, the one time we see Venus do a crescent beam, she doesn't even bother calling the attack -- it's as fast as firing a gun: hand up, zap. Then again, she is far more experienced than the others, a fact which we will come back to in a moment.
Anyway, these times are easily on a par with those implied in the V&V rules; I don't think Doug is going to have any problems with the speed at which they can let off shots at things.
On the other hand, the transformation sequences do not appear to be quite so fast, even when one leaves out the invocation and hand gestures. (If you haven't seen the new version, the henshin sequence now involves a series of specific hand/arm movements that reminds me unpleasantly of the "somatic components" of a D&D spell.) We have a lot less "outside" information on which to base a time estimate -- two transformations, to be precise, in two different episodes, and they don't jive with each other.
The first is an instance where a cosplaying Usagi transforms in front of Jadeite. They're the only conscious people in the room, and he's about 30 or 40 feet from her. By the time she comes out of the funky special effects, he's been able to get behind her and position himself for an attack. Since he doesn't appear to be capable of a combat teleport, this suggests that the transformation takes at least a few seconds, and maybe the actual length of the special effects sequence. Doug won't like that.
On the other hand, we have a later instance where Minako starts running and *blips* into Venus. No gestures, no invocation, no transformation animation, not even a break in stride. And it may well again reflect the fact that Venus has far more experience; perhaps all the Senshi will eventually reach that point. However, for the purposes of DW, I don't think it's going to happen.
(Oh, and afterthought -- it would appear that Minako might be Ami's intellectual equal, as scary as that might sound. Apparently she not only sings and dances, but she choreographs herself, writes her own music and handles at least part of the development of her marketing campaigns. All this while occasionally vanishing and being a vigilante...)
That's it, just a long ramble... opposing viewpoints and opinions of all stripes welcome.


-- Bob
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And all the girlies say I'm pretty dry for a wet guy...

[classicdrogn]

Ahem.
*YAAAY MINA-CHAAAAN!*
That is all.
- CD, fanboy
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[The Wanderer]

---

Anyway, as part of the occasional development effort for the Sailor Moon DW Step, I've been looking to see how the latest series handles the time spent on transformations and attacks. It probably won't surprise anyone that it's inconsistent. But despite that, it seems to make a bit more sense than what I've seen in the anime.

---

I don't know how much I'd rely on the live-action series for a fanfic involving the anime - there's quite a bit of difference, even more so from what I can tell than between the anime and the manga. (I haven't yet sat down to watch past episode 1, but I've been following via episode summaries and the like, and...)
Even if you (one) could, I'm not too sure I'd want to, at least not on an issue as sensitive as this one. I'd thought that the approximations we'd arrived at before were good enough as far as this goes...

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Oh, and afterthought -- it would appear that Minako might be Ami's intellectual equal, as scary as that might sound.

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This might well be the case even in the anime and/or manga, actually - she's truly formidable, it just gets lost under her... quirky personality most of the time. I'm not really a Minako fan, particularly, but there are times when she's just *amazing*. She's not traditionally considered the commander of the "Inners", the Princess's bodyguard, for nothing.

[Disruptor]

In the anime, Minako told Setsuna off once.
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor

[Bob Schroeck]

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I don't know how much I'd rely on the live-action series for a fanfic involving the anime - there's quite a bit of difference, even more so from what I can tell than between the anime and the manga.

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Oh, yeah, that's for sure. But I've been approaching it from the point of view that Takeuchi may have been refining the core concepts. (Not that I agree with all the "refinements", personally, but that's another issue.)

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I'd thought that the approximations we'd arrived at before were good enough as far as this goes...

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Oh, they are. I just can't help looking at new primary source material and evaluating it, especially when it shows something new. (A lot of somethings new, actually...)

---

This might well be the case even in the anime and/or manga, actually - she's truly formidable, it just gets lost under her... quirky personality most of the time. I'm not really a Minako fan, particularly, but there are times when she's just *amazing*.

---

Hmm. Okay. My exposure -- to be absolutely honest -- has heretofore been limited to the uncensored first season and of course umpty-zillion fanfics. Oh, and the first five or six manga volumes, too. Of course, she doesn't have anything like a major role by that point. Still, the live series shows a Minako who seems hypercompetent, not to mention infected with a bad case of Batmanitis -- she's rather grim and serious.

-- Bob
---------
And all the girlies say I'm pretty dry for a wet guy...

[Bob Schroeck]

---

In the anime, Minako told Setsuna off once.

---

Ah, so she's also the audience surrogate.


-- Bob
---------
And all the girlies say I'm pretty dry for a wet guy...

[Disruptor]

The manga 'Codename: Sailor V'. It came out before Sailor Moon.
Minako has been superheroing longer than the others. At least a year.
She has been forced to kill her boyfriend once. Turned out he was a memeber of the Dark Kingdom
She's also under a curse. I am definitley misremembering this: 'Even though you are the Senshi of Love, your love will always be hopeless.'
It has also been implied that she has all her memories from the Moon Kingdom.
She has reasons for being grim. In the anime, her flaky behavior has been theorized as making up for lost fun by fans.
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor

[Bob Schroeck]

Oh, yeah, I know about Minako's pre-Sailor Moon history, including the curse. Didn't know she was supposed to have all her memories... yeah, I suppose that would have a major effect. In the live show, Minako figures out that Usagi is Moon almost immediately and then spends all of their first "civilian" meeting (Usagi blissfully unaware that the idol she's spazzing over is Sailor V) wondering how this ditz can be Sailor Moon. She's clearly very professional and having all her SilverM memories would explain that.


-- Bob
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And all the girlies say I'm pretty dry for a wet guy...

[The Wanderer]

---

Oh, yeah, I know about Minako's pre-Sailor Moon history, including the curse.

---

That isn't necessarily to be considered a curse - it could equally well be a prediction of the future, by a person who isn't in any particular position to know. It can be played either way.

---

Didn't know she was supposed to have all her memories...

---

In the manga, yes, at the end of Codename wa Sailor V she recovers at least enough of her memories to know who she is, who her enemies are and what she's supposed to be doing. How much she remembers beyond that is uncertain, but again can be played as you like it.
In the anime, whether or not she has any more of her memories than any of the others is unknown, but since at least one major part of her past is different (having spent significant time in England) it wouldn't be unreasonable for other parts to be different as well.

[Disruptor]

In the manga, Minako also has that crystal sword and does teleport to Castle Magellan on the planet Venus regulary.
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor

[The Wanderer]

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I've been approaching it from the point of view that Takeuchi may have been refining the core concepts. (Not that I agree with all the "refinements", personally, but that's another issue.)

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That's a perspective I can go along with; let the new series inform your views on things, but don't let it dictate anything.

---

Hmm. Okay. My exposure -- to be absolutely honest -- has heretofore been limited to the uncensored first season and of course umpty-zillion fanfics. Oh, and the first five or six manga volumes, too. Of course, she doesn't have anything like a major role by that point.

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No... the one occasion I'm specifically thinking of takes place in S, though there are others of varying significance.

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Still, the live series shows a Minako who seems hypercompetent, not to mention infected with a bad case of Batmanitis -- she's rather grim and serious.

---

The anime version is, of course, in no way either of the above. She is, as I said, formidable, and could become "hypercompetent" if she put aside all frivolity and dedicated herself to it - but she wouldn't be *herself* anymore if she did that, at least not quite the same way. She *is* very well suited for her job, in terms of ability, but she doesn't always let that aspect of herself rule her actions.

[Bob Schroeck]

And it looks like Ami is moving into Minako territory inasfar as ease of use with her Senshi abilities is concerned. She's definitely the most versatile of the Senshi so far -- in a moment of need she manages to create a sword of ice, and does a "blip" transformation while running just like Minako did (although she does have to do the invocation and gestures first, unlike Minako). That latter may simply be an indication of the normal speed of the transformation, in which case Jadeite was pretty damned fast to get behind Usagi during that instant.
Oh, and the series appears to be running more or less in realtime. New Year's was a major point in both this and the previous episode. Plus -- and this is the kicker -- we saw a closeup of Ami's laptop, and it showed a current date of 10 January 2004. If I'm not mistaken, that was the day the episode was broadcast in Japan.


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[Kokuten]

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in which case Jadeite was pretty damned fast to get behind Usagi during that instant.

---

I was always under the impression that the Dark Whatsit's generals _were_ pretty damned fast, along with having a host of pseudo-vampiric abilities...
--- Kokuten Daysleeper, Retired Epicced Officered DorfWire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Bob Schroeck]

Hm. It only occurs to me now that he probably started moving as soon as she went into the invocation -- which easily lasts several times as long as the actual transformation. The "blip" change seemed to be about a half second at the most, and the invocation is maybe four or five seconds, based on my attempt to replay it in my head while looking at my watch. That would be enough time for him to get behind her, if he were reasonably (or superhumanly) quick.


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[JonasJensen]

Bear in mind as well that most of the Yuma from the anime seemed to have combat teleportation as well. They'd just up and appear, out of nowhere usually. And the generals did the same thing with distressing regularity. There's no reason Jadeite couldn't have just teleported behind Sailor Moon in a half-second or so. That would be a serious advantage, even given the extremely fast transformation time. If played properly, it would *always* give the generals the drop on the girls, and teaching the girls to stagger their transformation times to cover each other would give Doug nightmares...

[Bob Schroeck]

Now that's an idea... I like that.
Oh, and ep 14 showed Mercury roof-hopping. It wasn't terribly well done, but they at least tried -- she ran, transformed, and then made what looked like a several-hundred foot leap to the top of a distant building, then a second, then leapt out of shot.


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[JonasJensen]

Actually, having just found a torrent feed for this one, I'll chime in.
Mercury's first transformation, in episode 2, was fairly clearly damn-near-instant. She's falling from a third-story balcony, and is transformed in time to make a soft landing on her feet. Three-story fall is what, a couple of seconds at most?

[Bob Schroeck]

Oh, right, I forgot about that! Yes, that's one of the best examples, because we have an exorable physical process to time against.


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[Bob Schroeck]

Hm. Poked around for some data so we can figure out a window of transformation times for Mercury during her fall. (God, am I a geek or what?)
d = 0.5 * g * t^2
d = distance fallen in meters
g = gravitational acceleration (10 m/s/s on earth)
t = time in seconds
IIRC, Ami was hanging onto the bottom of a fourth-story balcony, making her at the top of the third story. Checking various building standards sites, it looks like a story in a building like that is about 15 feet (9-foot ceilings, 3 feet mechanical space, 1 foot for floor construction). That's approximately 4.6 meters a floor, so assuming a perfectly spherical Ami of uniform density , she has about 14 meters to fall. (Actually 13.8, but who's counting? )
That gives us:
14m = 0.5 * 10 m/s/s * t^2
28m = 10 m/s/s * t^2
2.8 s^2 = t^2
t = SQRT(2.8) seconds
t = 1.6733 seconds
Assuming I didn't bobble any of my 2-decades-old physics.
So, Ami doesn't even have time to invoke the change before she becomes a flat Ami of non-uniform density. Then again, she started falling in slow motion, implying a variable quantity for g, taking this into the realm of very silly calculus...


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[Stephen Mann]

OK, so your physics problem reminded me of a file I got of the net a looooooong time ago. I assume you've seen it (so assuming a perfectly spherical Ami of uniform density ), but for those who haven't:

THEOLOGICAL ENGINEERING EXAM
5 Questions, 60 Minutes.
You may use a calculator, the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and the Book of Mormon. The speed of light is c. Show all work. For all problems, assume a perfectly spherical Jesus of constant density D. No praying during the exam.
(20 pts.) Bob and Joe are standing on a street corner. God loves each an equal amount L_0. Bob then accelerates to .9c. In Joe's rest frame, how much does God now love Bob?
Sven, a Catholic, is in a state of grace. He then has sex with sheep S.
a. (8 pts.) What is Sven's atonement coefficient following the act if the sheep was not willing?
b. (12 pts.) What if the sheep, while not technically being willing, could be said not to mind either?
(20 pts.) Let the eternal, all abiding love of the Holy Spirit be the xy plane. Let Sue's soul be at (0,0,5) at t = 0 sec., traveling at 5 m/s in the direction of the positive z axis. Everything is in Cartesian coordinates bespeaking subscription to a perfectly rational Enlightenment attitude towards the Universe. At what time t will Sue be saved?
(Hint: Assume a point soul.)
(20 pts.) Assume the Rapture occurs at time t. Cornelia, a saved human weighing 90 kg, in a state of grace, has her head in the closing jaws of an alligator at time t. What mass of meat will remain to the alligator at time t + 10 sec.?
Stan is a frictionless, massless Mormon in a rest state. His sin level for his faith is currently 11 McBeals. He eats .3 kg of pork, and enjoys it very much. Assume that the Jews are right about, well, pretty much everything.
a. (10 pts.) What is Stan's sin level now?
b. (10 pts.) Stan is one of them Salt Lake City Mormons. He ain't so damn smug now, is he?
Extra Credit (10 pts): 25 grams of wafers and 20 ml of cheap wine undergo transubstantiation and become the flesh and blood of our Lord. How many Joules of heat are released by the transformation?

[Herr Bad Moon]

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Snipped Bob's Physics Lesson

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That Sir, is one magnificent piece of geekery. I salute you.---------------
"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished. Oh the Jedi are gonna feel this one."
-Professor Farnsworth
---
Jon
"And that must have caused my dad's brain to break in half, replaced by a purely mechanical engine of revenge!"

[Bob Schroeck]

Thank you, Herr Bad Moon.
And yes, Stephen, I've seen an exam much like that one -- although with a slightly different set of questions, to the best of my recollection.


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[JonasJensen]

Bob -- are you thinking of the one that ends
General Knowledge
Define the universe. Give three examples.
?

[Bob Schroeck]

No, it was definitely a "theological engineering" exam, and yes, there was the "spherical Jesus" line. It just had a couple different questions. Or at least I don't remember some that are given above.


-- Bob
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There is no spork.

[JonasJensen]

Hrm. There were a couple of theological questions on that version... I'll try and dig it up and see if the spherical Jesus line is in it.