Worlds with "different" magics

[Xenoproctologist]

I have to wonder: what happens if Doug lands on a world with fundamentally different laws of magical physics? I know that you managed to conspiracy-theory it away in the Harry Potter universe, but what do you do when that's not possible?
Take Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series, for example. Magic apparently splits itself into five separate elemental flows, and has separate sources aligned with male and female gender. Additionally, there's the madness-inducing taint on the male half of the source. In a situation like this, what happens with Doug's Metagift?

[Valles]

>Take Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series
Yes, take it, please - Far, far away.
On the real subject of the thread, though - I somehow doubt that Doug would be able to open a gate out of or -into- a place where his metatalent was inoperative. Now, it's possible that he could end up someplace where he was the -only- person who's magic looked anything like what he was familiar with, but he'd still have his mojo. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to latch a gate onto the joint in the first place.
Blessed be.
-n
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===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Bob Schroeck]

Doug's magic follows a fairly standard pattern -- probably best explicated by Mercedes Lackey's books, but by no means unique to them -- magic is essentially the manipulation of an energy called "mana", which can either be generated internally (Doug's "personal energies") or absorbed from the environment ("ambient" mana, leylines, and nodes). The ability to "process" this energy and turn it into magical effects is called the "mage gift".
Most of the time (the events of DW2 notwithstanding -- he only learned how to tap environmental mana in the unwritten DW1), Doug operates off his own internal energies, which are generated and recharged by his own metabolism. So, basically, unless the world is so weird that his metabolism doesn't work (urk), his magic should function regardless of the local paradigm. Much to the distress of natives who think they know how everything works.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Caligostro]

> Most of the time (the events of DW2 notwithstanding
> -- he only learned how to tap environmental mana in
> the unwritten DW1), Doug operates off his own
> internal energies, which are generated and recharged
> by his own metabolism. So, basically, unless the
> world is so weird that his metabolism doesn't work
> (urk), his magic should function regardless of the
> local paradigm.
Now what if you placed him in a universe where other paradigms are at work? For instance, let him roam the shadowrun world and experience how magic users there are unlimited in the amount of "Mana" they use, but pay a penalty in exhaustion/mental/physical damage. I think it woud be interesting to let him find a node in that universe since the concept of "mana" doesn't really exist there -- no other mage could tap into it. And if Doug overdoes it he gets burned out, but not to the point of physical damage to him if he can't take the drain, I think.
Just a few quick thoughts ...

[Bob Schroeck]

It's interesting that you bring up Shadowrun, because our campaign just restarted after a long hiatus. (And I am so glad Helen finally gave in to all the noodging and took up her GM hat again. Hi, Helen!) I have been giving some thought to tossing Doug into our particular version of the campaign world. I haven't given a lot of thought to the intersection of magic systems, except for a few gross effects. Doug's an astral beacon, for one thing -- shines so brightly to astral sight that the glare off him obscures nearby people and objects. Some varieties of spirit are very interested in him, too.

Since the fundamental metaphysics/manadynamics of the Shadowrun world are so different from that of Warriors' World, I suspect Doug will be running solely on internal energy. (Unless someone argues effectively for the astral plane being one big node -- which is one way it could be interpreted.) Either way, it would be fun to watch the reactions of the Seattle mages to Doug using "Lightning's Hand" -- bolt after bolt after bolt of godawful powerful lightning, no obvious drain, just what is this guy?

It would also give me a chance to write about my other favorite character: Mossad, my Jewish street samurai. Heavily cybered and biowared, but none of it is obvious. He goes on runs in three-piece suits unless he has to wear a lot of armor. Looks like an accountant until he pulls out the sword or the Browning. He's also an excellent theoretical magician -- designs spells that he trades to a local Hermetic Initiate in exchange for the occasional Quickening -- as well as a journeyman decker, a talismonger, a fair med-tech, oh, and he really is an accountant. And an actuary. (He needed both skills once while undercover on a run, so he spent some karma and did some studying.) As to why he has so many different skill sets, well, I discovered that even with a cool concept, street samurai can get boring after a while. And I just didn't want to spend the quickly-skyrocketing karma costs for minimally-improved weapons skills (I've been using bioware to improve those now). After meeting a gorgeous Hispanic Hermetic, he decided to study magic so he could talk shop with her, and discovered he was good at the theoretical stuff. There were three shamans in the party, so the talismongery was useful -- plus it's really the enchanting skill, and even without the magical gift, he can do analyses of items and such. And he's started a security business and needs things like Business Administration and accounting. Plus he's the only one in the party who knows how to drive (and owns a car, in the trunk of which he keeps a Panther assault cannon)... Oh, and he speaks Yiddish and comes from what's left of Brooklyn. And laments that there are no good kosher delis in Seattle. Or any kosher delis, for that matter. (Check the Seattle sourcebook. What single ethnic restaurant type is completely absent? You guessed it.)

Anyway, I'm rambling. I'd love to see Doug rubbing shoulders with Mossad, and with Sphynx (the Bast Priestess/Cat Shaman), Blaze (Wolf Shaman), Terry (elf Physad), Random (spaced-out decker) and Chi-chi (rigger).

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Logan Darklighter]

Oh, characters with diverse skill sets and powers are very interesting. My old Traveller character, Logan(from whence I got my fannish moniker) was an Imperial Intersteller Scout. Initially he had a bit of a sketchy background. But when I revamped him for MegaTraveller, I thought him out a bit more. He's from Glisten, in the Spinward Marches sector. He was taken in as an orphan by a mustered out Scout and his wife and brought up with them.
Living in the Glisten belt, he was a natural spacer, and decided to follow his adopted father's path and enlisted in the Scout service. Upon transferring to the training station a couple of jumps away, he discovered a rather disconcerting thing about himself -
He had a unique form of agoraphobia - planetary surfaces curve the _wrong_ way to his eyes. Imagine living all your life living in space colonies where you _never_ see a conventional horizon. The biggest open spaces are in the O'Neil type cylinders, and those curve up and over, so that it's like being in a covered valley. You can always tell where you are, all you have to do is look UP! He's got good navigational skills in space, but he tends to forget how to find his way around on the ground. He keeps getting lost, which is somewhat mortifying for a Scout...
On one of his first missions, he wound up getting stranded on an interdicted world that the scouts had been re-surveying, and while waiting to get off-world and getting involved with the natives, he actually learned horseback riding and how to survive in the wilderness when he had to. He had to tame that agoraphobia quick! He also wound up getting involved with a local underground psionics institute and developing his own latent capabilities. The Imperium officially takes a dim view of psionics (He's got the rare talent of teleportation, plus clairvoyance and some telepathy) , but in secret, they have their own program overseen by the Navy and the Scout service. Logan got involved in that after getting back to civilization. Before mustering out to detached duy at age 34, he became an accomplished starship Pilot, a master hacker, and something of a jack-of-all-trades in shipboard systems operations.
And he won't settle down. He's a natural wanderer, with his unique skill set and natural aversion to sticking around on planets, he's the member of the adventuring team who's always wanting to get a move on first.
Anyway, just thought I'd share. Your character sounds really cool, there, Bob. And got me to remembering. There's another character I could talk about that I'm currently playing in Mike Surbrook's Kazei 5 PBEM. But that should go in a seperate post.
-Logan

[Bob Schroeck]

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Anyway, just thought I'd share. Your character sounds really cool, there, Bob.

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As does yours! I like the agoraphobia angle a lot!

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And got me to remembering. There's another character I could talk about that I'm currently playing in Mike Surbrook's Kazei 5 PBEM. But that should go in a seperate post.

---

Put it up in General/General Chatter, and we'll talk.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Caligostro]

> (Unless someone argues effectively for the astral
> plane being one big node -- which is one way it could
> be interpreted.)
... just consider the possibilities should this be the case ... If Doug opens up to this node, not only would he shine like a beacon to everyone using magesight in the area, he would also warp the astral plane and perhaps suck astral beings towars himself.
He would probably not stay long enough || use enough node mana, but if he could ... What would happen if someone could *use up* that node? Even to some substantial part? Suppose the node does not get replenished and the local mage community finds out how to funnel it into their spells :-)

[Logan Darklighter]

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As does yours! I like the agoraphobia angle a lot!

---

He managed to get over it mostly. It's funny, the open infinity of space has no terror for him, and he finds many planets quite beautiful. He's not uncomfortable at all in low orbit or even high altitude above a planet. It's only when he's walking on the surface that his agoraphobia makes him uncomfortable.
He actually is quite the avid tourist sometimes, enjoying the great outdoors on some of the more hospitable planets. If he were on earth, he'd quite enjoy the scenery in such places as the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone. He prefers mountainous areas because the horizon is somewhat cut off from view. He'd _hate_ the wide open plains of the midwest. Too much open sky that in the back of his mind, he feels like he's going to fall _up_ into at any moment.
-Logan

[Bob Schroeck]

I don't think that's likely... Doug can't possibly drain the node under Megatokyo -- he's not going to empty out a world- (or universe-) sized node.
One odd idea I was thinking of for him was that since he leaks mana back out into the environment, he has a kind of "positive pressure" effect -- a mage trying to ground a fireball or something into him, say through the enchantment on his polykev, has a lot of trouble because the magic has to climb "upstream" to reach him, instead of the usual "downstream through the astral connection" mechanic.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Caligostro]

... another thought ... would it be possible for him to
lern how to go astral like the shadowrun mages? If so he could probably take this knowledge (and skill) with him into other universes and use it on other nodes, as well. Of course, in other worlds this would be dangerous to do with small nodes -- what happens if you are astral in a node that shrinks (gets used up) and suddenly does not encompass your physical self anymore? Would it still be possible to reach back to it?

[Bob Schroeck]

I wouldn't want to let him do that without a song, honestly. I don't want to change his core power set, and that would be a big change.
To look at it another way, consider him an odd sort of spellcasting adept-physical adept fusion. He's got the asense gift, but can't go astral.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Scrambler]

If the Shadowrun universe has a universe-wide node, I think Doug would have to first learn to tone-down any combat songs. I mean, "Black hole sun" would likely make truck-sized black holes there, and "I'm Alive" would probably instantly heal _anyone_ to full health in the vicinity regardless of how seriously injured. Besides, It would be _very_ difficult for him to run out of his personal mana supply while there, since the entire area is permeated with it. It would definately make for some interesting situations. Obviously, a way to have him inadvertantly catch the attention of certain people would be for one of his songs to outdo it's expectations.

[Bob Schroeck]

Well, he still has to actively link to the "node" before he can draw upon it -- and he can only draw so much at a time. I've purposely left that quantity vague, for story purposes, but it's not incredibly huge.
What's really going to make him stand out in a Shadowrun world is the ease with which he casts a truly monstrous variety of "spells", some tech which is dangerously in advance of anything possessed by the megacorps, and the fact that he's a klieg light out on the astral plane.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Scrambler]

I was making my speedy heal assumption based on the fact that the presense of the node under megatokyo caused it to work faster, if I remember correctly. This would cause it to work ultra-fast in a gigantic node area.
Besides, wouldn't it be nearly be impossible to use up all of his mana, considering that the surrounding area would likely "push" mana into him if he were at a low amount?

[Bob Schroeck]

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I was making my speedy heal assumption based on the fact that the presense of the node under megatokyo caused it to work faster, if I remember correctly.

---

Hm. Yes, yes I did write that, didn't I? I've got to stop throwing in random things because they seem cool at the time; they may mess up a story later.

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Besides, wouldn't it be nearly be impossible to use up all of his mana, considering that the surrounding area would likely "push" mana into him if he were at a low amount?

---

Well, if I really had to deal with it, I'd probably follow the route specified in GURPS for high-mana areas -- you can use up your entire supply in a single turn, tapping yourself out, and then the environment "refills" that before your next turn begins. It's not a continuous flow situation.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Scrambler]

That works, and besides, IMHO you didn't write into a corner, you wrote into a room with more doors than before. As I said before, it could be used as one of the things that make him stand out in a crowd in a universe where _lots_ of people are extraordinary.

[Bob Schroeck]

Well, the very fact that his healing is area-effect (110' radius!) is enough to make him noticeable.
But yeah, I see what you mean.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Oathsblood]

Wwould shadowrun even have a node? I would think it would be more like after the Mage Storms in valdimar. Mana spread all over the place, lots of lowlevel ambiant mana. Which could be the reason the mages in shadowrun suffer stun/phisical drain they're all blood path mages using themselves as their powersorces, the stronger the spell the worse it is.
oh, I'm rather new here read your storys a while back and finaly noticed the like to the new forum

[Bob Schroeck]

Yeah, that may be a better way of looking at it. When I first specced out the Steps of the Walk, I classified each world by the way magical energy was available; the classification system ran on two axes: strength (none to low to high to don't sneeze wrong) and organization (ambient, ley lines, nodes). The Shadowrun world would be, in that system, a medium-to-high ambient mana world.. The idea of Astral Space being one big node, though, has its attractions...
Meanwhile, Oathsblood, welcome to the forums and I'm glad you enjoy the story so far.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Scrambler]

>The idea of Astral Space being one big node, though, has its attractions...
I think the best part would be what he says when he checks the universe for mana nodes and such. Likely some profane exclamation, followed by "Cool!"

[offsides]

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Likely some profane exclamation

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I thing what you're looking for is "AARGH!!!! Photons! Waaaaay too loud..."

Offsides
Drunkard's Walk Forum Moderator and Prereader At Large

[Bob Schroeck]

Yeah, I think that might be it. I've got to cut down on Doug's profanity; I really didn't intend for him to be quite as foul-mouthed as he turned out.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Ebony]

It happens to the best of us. He's been under a lot of stress lately. Although, it would be amusing to have one of the "Warriors" comment on it in the upcoming fight in Chapter 12.
Kat: "Jeez, Doug, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?"
Ebony the Black Dragon
aka Draco Draconis Ebenium
known to the MLA as Aaron F. Johnson
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
www.lrgames.com
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Bob Schroeck]

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Although, it would be amusing to have one of the "Warriors" comment on it in the upcoming fight in Chapter 12.
Kat: "Jeez, Doug, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?"

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That's more a Maggie way of putting it. Kat would say something like, "Doug, you're being rather... emphatic. Is there something we should know?" The real-world Kat (and subsequently her WW analogue) is very sweet, often soft-spoken and quite insightful; personality-wise, she's about the closest thing to Belldandy that I've ever encountered in the real world.
Hm. I wonder if I could fit that into chapter 12...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.