This is kind of a strange topic to discuss with Riding on Fire, but I thought I wanted to get it out there: how far do I go when trying to turn somebody's morality around without breaking it and turning it into bullshit?
As I wrote before, the heroes of Riding On Fire are part of one of Fred Herriot's stock villains, the Church of Lum. They still believe and worship Lum as a Goddess, they just don't approve of some of the blatantly evil things that Ougi and his priesthood have done to ensure that their Goddess stays under their influence, especially as many of these atrocities (like the cobalt bomb put in Tomobiki in Fred's thread) are kept away from the Niphentaxian public. And of course, they're rebelling, partly because of the disappearance of the Avalonians, but also because of his actions in responding to the incident (enslaving lower class Niphentaxian citizens for the nobility, and use of excessive violence to deal with people who rebel). But this wouldn't really be enough for me, so I decided to flesh them out a little bit more: the protagonists specifically are also part of a group which should exist on Phentax Two, given Fred's occasional mention of the remains of the Church of Hollywood secretly still being active in certain works, not to mention Ganzo dai-Louc but are never thought of: the growing mass of abolitionists, either Lumite or otherwise, who treat their Avalonian slaves as sentient beings and treat them with fairness and kindness, and ship them or any hybrid children they may have with them (as Niphentaxian-Avalonian hybrids are heresy, according to Fred) off planet.
So what about antagonists? I believe that, unless Fred suddenly decides to magic up an excuse, simply overthrowing Ougi and expelling the undesirable elements from the Church of Lum are not going to heal Phentax Two's standing with the universe at large. The protagonists are travelling to the Federation in order to find out two things: who was responsible for the destruction of Phentax Twelve and the fleet, and to see if the Avalonians would forgive them for their broken system. They're also bringing video evidence of the cruelty that Ougi and his Priesthood, as well as the other ruling classes, have visited on the lower class citizens by the damage wrought by the disappearance of the Avalonians, as well as the rising death toll.
I have a couple in mind, myself. The Sagussans probably would be too caught up in finding their Daite'cha again, and would probably think our heroes' too small fry to ignore, apart from Our Lord Ataru occasionally seething over their progress across space, but they fear they can't touch them because of the virtue of their mission. The Federation would openly condemn the protagonist, but secretly support them, sending supplies, ammunition, vehicles and such. The Zephyrites are busy with other things. That leaves my two antagonists: the Yehisrites and the Noukiites.
The Yehisrite antagonists are basically consisting of one person and his private fleet: Sheko, the Mad Prince. Fred basically wrote him to be Ataru's fearsome guard dog in the Federation: he's apparently supposed to be this heroic Boisterous Bruiser who openly flouts conventions and does what he wants to help Ataru, because he knows that nobody can touch him. But he beheads a Niphentaxian ambassador in his first episode, without even giving him the chance to explain, admires Ryofu Hosen massacring several Niphentaxian ships, and basically cows the Federation from doing anything that might interfere with Ataru, the Sagussans, or the VEDF.
So in my minds' eye, Sheko's not just the Mad Prince because he flouts the Yehisrite laws and traditions: I guess I could say he's an intergalactic Complete Monster. He once glassed a Federation colony. He killed a large transport of Vosian soldiers, despite little linkage to the dictatorial Mikado. He took part in the first Colony Four massacre, with only his swords as weapons, and killed not only the Mikado's troopers, but also several bureaucrats and office workers, because he believed they were equally guilty for just being on Colony Four in the first place. He sometimes shoots down random civilian ships for fun. That kind of stuff. Well, maybe not the last one.
But the thing is, not only will he own up to it, he will do it with the point of his sword against your throat, and several of his crack troops training their guns on you, your friends, and your family. So, when our Niphentaxian heroes steal an experimental destroyer-carrier and make off to the Federation to call for support to heal their blasted planet, Sheko is busy gunning his fleet to make sure that them, and any other Niphentaxian who dares leave the planet, are wiped from existence. That's what I'm seeing in Sheko, in regards to Riding on Fire. I'm worried that this might be taking it a mite too far, and breaking suspension of disbelief, but that's what I see in how Fred wrote Sheko, anyway...
The Noukiite antagonists are more simple. They are not outwardly bloodthirsty like Sheko is, or fear-ridden and spineless like the Federation apparently is. The Noukiites are simply far too steeped in their own traditions, and too entrenched in the point of view of their friends, that they cannot see any other points of view. They are an isolationist race whose first contact with other beings was with the Urusians, who took over their home due to them losing the tag game. However, thanks to some bum moves, the Noukiites were mistreated under Urusian rule, and promptly rebelled. The Noukiites now absolutely hate the Urusians, and the Federation, due to this one bad time in their history.
Thus, in the Noukiites state of mind, the Urusians are basically evil, and everyone associated with them are evil by proxy. This includes the races of the Federation, which is a bit of a projection, and the Niphentaxians, which is less so. The past history with Uru and their invasion has poisoned Noukiite relations with the Federation that it is not so ridiculous to suggest that, with the right amount of charisma, a person could convince a Noukiite to do practically anything that they wish them to do, if they are aligned against the Urusians, or if they know the Urusians hate them. Add to that the fact that the Noukiites have the absurdly powerful Dragons on their side, and you have a right royal pain in the ass for the Federation.
And when they discover that our Niphentaxian heroes are out in space on their quest for penitence and redemption, they seek to stop it due to their own short-sighted beliefs, and placing their trust in Ataru, who dearly wishes to see them dead.
That's what I've got right now. Like I said, I'm wondering if I should tone all this down in order to keep people from breaking suspension of disbelief, when this is coming after what Fred has written for his thread...
As I wrote before, the heroes of Riding On Fire are part of one of Fred Herriot's stock villains, the Church of Lum. They still believe and worship Lum as a Goddess, they just don't approve of some of the blatantly evil things that Ougi and his priesthood have done to ensure that their Goddess stays under their influence, especially as many of these atrocities (like the cobalt bomb put in Tomobiki in Fred's thread) are kept away from the Niphentaxian public. And of course, they're rebelling, partly because of the disappearance of the Avalonians, but also because of his actions in responding to the incident (enslaving lower class Niphentaxian citizens for the nobility, and use of excessive violence to deal with people who rebel). But this wouldn't really be enough for me, so I decided to flesh them out a little bit more: the protagonists specifically are also part of a group which should exist on Phentax Two, given Fred's occasional mention of the remains of the Church of Hollywood secretly still being active in certain works, not to mention Ganzo dai-Louc but are never thought of: the growing mass of abolitionists, either Lumite or otherwise, who treat their Avalonian slaves as sentient beings and treat them with fairness and kindness, and ship them or any hybrid children they may have with them (as Niphentaxian-Avalonian hybrids are heresy, according to Fred) off planet.
So what about antagonists? I believe that, unless Fred suddenly decides to magic up an excuse, simply overthrowing Ougi and expelling the undesirable elements from the Church of Lum are not going to heal Phentax Two's standing with the universe at large. The protagonists are travelling to the Federation in order to find out two things: who was responsible for the destruction of Phentax Twelve and the fleet, and to see if the Avalonians would forgive them for their broken system. They're also bringing video evidence of the cruelty that Ougi and his Priesthood, as well as the other ruling classes, have visited on the lower class citizens by the damage wrought by the disappearance of the Avalonians, as well as the rising death toll.
I have a couple in mind, myself. The Sagussans probably would be too caught up in finding their Daite'cha again, and would probably think our heroes' too small fry to ignore, apart from Our Lord Ataru occasionally seething over their progress across space, but they fear they can't touch them because of the virtue of their mission. The Federation would openly condemn the protagonist, but secretly support them, sending supplies, ammunition, vehicles and such. The Zephyrites are busy with other things. That leaves my two antagonists: the Yehisrites and the Noukiites.
The Yehisrite antagonists are basically consisting of one person and his private fleet: Sheko, the Mad Prince. Fred basically wrote him to be Ataru's fearsome guard dog in the Federation: he's apparently supposed to be this heroic Boisterous Bruiser who openly flouts conventions and does what he wants to help Ataru, because he knows that nobody can touch him. But he beheads a Niphentaxian ambassador in his first episode, without even giving him the chance to explain, admires Ryofu Hosen massacring several Niphentaxian ships, and basically cows the Federation from doing anything that might interfere with Ataru, the Sagussans, or the VEDF.
So in my minds' eye, Sheko's not just the Mad Prince because he flouts the Yehisrite laws and traditions: I guess I could say he's an intergalactic Complete Monster. He once glassed a Federation colony. He killed a large transport of Vosian soldiers, despite little linkage to the dictatorial Mikado. He took part in the first Colony Four massacre, with only his swords as weapons, and killed not only the Mikado's troopers, but also several bureaucrats and office workers, because he believed they were equally guilty for just being on Colony Four in the first place. He sometimes shoots down random civilian ships for fun. That kind of stuff. Well, maybe not the last one.
But the thing is, not only will he own up to it, he will do it with the point of his sword against your throat, and several of his crack troops training their guns on you, your friends, and your family. So, when our Niphentaxian heroes steal an experimental destroyer-carrier and make off to the Federation to call for support to heal their blasted planet, Sheko is busy gunning his fleet to make sure that them, and any other Niphentaxian who dares leave the planet, are wiped from existence. That's what I'm seeing in Sheko, in regards to Riding on Fire. I'm worried that this might be taking it a mite too far, and breaking suspension of disbelief, but that's what I see in how Fred wrote Sheko, anyway...
The Noukiite antagonists are more simple. They are not outwardly bloodthirsty like Sheko is, or fear-ridden and spineless like the Federation apparently is. The Noukiites are simply far too steeped in their own traditions, and too entrenched in the point of view of their friends, that they cannot see any other points of view. They are an isolationist race whose first contact with other beings was with the Urusians, who took over their home due to them losing the tag game. However, thanks to some bum moves, the Noukiites were mistreated under Urusian rule, and promptly rebelled. The Noukiites now absolutely hate the Urusians, and the Federation, due to this one bad time in their history.
Thus, in the Noukiites state of mind, the Urusians are basically evil, and everyone associated with them are evil by proxy. This includes the races of the Federation, which is a bit of a projection, and the Niphentaxians, which is less so. The past history with Uru and their invasion has poisoned Noukiite relations with the Federation that it is not so ridiculous to suggest that, with the right amount of charisma, a person could convince a Noukiite to do practically anything that they wish them to do, if they are aligned against the Urusians, or if they know the Urusians hate them. Add to that the fact that the Noukiites have the absurdly powerful Dragons on their side, and you have a right royal pain in the ass for the Federation.
And when they discover that our Niphentaxian heroes are out in space on their quest for penitence and redemption, they seek to stop it due to their own short-sighted beliefs, and placing their trust in Ataru, who dearly wishes to see them dead.
That's what I've got right now. Like I said, I'm wondering if I should tone all this down in order to keep people from breaking suspension of disbelief, when this is coming after what Fred has written for his thread...