Confession of a Baen non-reader

[Jeanne Hedge]

OK, now this is going to be just plain weird, given the original subject of this thread, but here goes.
Last night I popped over to the Baen website, paid my $5, and downloaded "Cordelia's Honor". Yes, this is both books.
I also paid a total of $10 for 2 short story collections (about 18-20 stories, altogether) by Sharon Lee & Steve Miller, set in their Liaden universe (hadn't seen these before - and yes, Baen's download library now has stuff from authors other than Baen's)
Guess I've got a bunch of reading to do now.

Jeanne Hedge
www.jhedge.com

"Believe me, if I have to go the rest of my life without companionship, knowing myself won't be a problem."
-- Gabrielle of Potadeia

[ECSNorway]

You are in for a VERY pleasant few days, Jeanne. Enjoy the reading. --
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Bob Schroeck]

Just a side note: as I mentioned, Peggy and I have been reading the 1632 stuff. Well, we broke down a few weeks ago and got the hardcover edition of 1634: The Baltic War. And last night, after reading the book on and off for a week or so, I just discovered that there's a CD-ROM, apparently of the entire Baen free library, bound into the back of the book. Now that's just very cool.

-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.

[Rieverre]

re: Weber.
Personally, I'd rec staying with his sci-fi stuff and avoiding his Bahzell books altogether. It's not anything we haven't seen before in fantasy and the execution ... well, it plain bores me. The first book is still somewhat readable, but by the time you get to the third you scratch your head and go 'yeah, okay, when is something going to finally fucking _happen_?!' in irritation. Or I go, at least.
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm

[ECSNorway]

Well, for a depiction of a paladin in training, it beats hell out of Paxenarrion (boorrrrrring!). Liz Moon writes some good sci-fi, but keep her away from fantasy.--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Kokuten]

yeah, I'd be the guy eating up both Bahzell and Paxenarrion, and asking for more.
I'm weird like that.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[nemonowan]

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I just discovered that there's a CD-ROM, apparently of the entire Baen free library, bound into the back of the book. Now that's just very cool.

---

They have been doing that for a while now. The best part is that the content of those CD-ROMs is FREELY REDISTRIBUTABLE!!. (meaning that yes, it is legal to share it with others)
Which is what this guy here is doing. He has all the Baen CDs ever released online, to download or read at your pleasure.
NN

[Bob Schroeck]

Very nice. And using his site, I see that the CD-ROM is not the whole Baen library, but a collection specific to the 1632 world...-- Bob
---------
One of the primary differences between the Left and the Right is their attitude toward the Future. The Radical wants the Future to have gotten here yesterday. The Reactionary wants the Future quietly shot and the corpse buried where no one can find it.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[ECSNorway]

Wow, Bob, think you could come up with a more offensive .sig?--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Rev Dark]

ECSNorway, it behooves us to be precise.
The phrase you are looking for is "More offensive to me." I didn't find it particularly offensive.
Source is also important. When Peter Gabriel sings "I don't remember, I don't recall" it fucking rocks. When Alberto Gonzales says it, it does not.

[Bob Schroeck]

---

Wow, Bob, think you could come up with a more offensive .sig?

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Easily. Perhaps this is a bit more to your liking?

---

The difference between the conservative and the reactionary: The true conservative views change that has already happened as a fait accompli and focuses his attention on managing change that is about to happen. The reactionary, on the other hand, is terrified of or offended by anything that isn't exactly as it was in his childhood, and wants to undo it all until he no longer feels threatened. The conservative acknowledges that change happens, but intends to see that it happens at a comfortable pace. The reactionary, on the other hand, wants everything to be petrified, frozen in place, so that his interests and his complacency are never ambushed by the unexpected.

---

Or perhaps this:

---

The different shades of political leaning can be typified by their attitudes toward the rate of change in the world around them. The radical is speeding toward the New at a breakneck pace; the liberal accepts the New at the pace it sets for itself; the conservative wants to slow the approach to a speed that he is comfortable with; and the reactionary wants to go in reverse.

---

Note that there are distinctions made between the conservative and the reactionary. Because the reactionary is so typified, do not make the mistake of assuming all of the Right is being excoriated.-- Bob
---------
One of the primary differences between the Left and the Right is their attitude toward the Future. The Radical wants the Future to have gotten here yesterday. The Reactionary wants the Future quietly shot and the corpse buried where no one can find it.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[ECSNorway]

I'm simply saying that we have a politics/flamewar board for a reason.
And Now For Something Thread Relevant:
Complete, authorized, downloadable and web-viewable images of all the Baen promotional CD's--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Morganite]

Nemonowan already posted a link to that. (And hey, there's a couple on there that I know I have the books of, but can't find! '.' )
Also, my advice on the Vorkosigan novels: Reading them in the order they take place in is probably the best, but not everyone may have that luxury. Luckily, most of them will stand on their own fairly well. But, whatever else you do, you absolutely postively should *not* read "A Civil Campaign" if you haven't read "Komarr". The plots aren't exactly linked, but too many things I think just would *not* make sense without the background.
(I'm not really a big fan of "A Civil Campaign", just because I don't enjoy reading about Miles acting stupid. I read the series because I enjoy him being clever... Still, it does give a lot of people we don't see as much of a chance to be seen being clever themselves, which isn't bad. '.' )
-Morgan."Mikuru-chan molested me! I'm... so happy!"
-Haruhi, "The Ecchi of Haruhi Suzumiya"
---(Not really)

[ECSNorway]

Wholly agree, Mor. I do like the Ivan plot in ACC.--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[ordnance11]

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(I'm not really a big fan of "A Civil Campaign", just because I don't enjoy reading about Miles acting stupid. I read the series because I enjoy him being clever... Still, it does give a lot of people we don't see as much of a chance to be seen being clever themselves, which isn't bad. '.' )

---

Well, what did you expect?....the man is head over heels in love! Genuis and rationality goes out the window in men when that happens. You can spot the on-going train wreck about the happen, but it was on the level of the best british comedies of the 20's.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[DHBirr]

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Still, it does give a lot of people we don't see as much of a chance to be seen being clever themselves, which isn't bad.

---

Yeah, like Ivan shooting holes in his "that idiot" cover. I loved that.
Also, Simon Illyan's great summation of Miles' character:
"Do you know all those old folk tales where the count tries to get rid of his only daughter's unsuitable suitor by giving him three impossible tasks?"
"Yes..."
"Don't ever try that with Miles. Just ... don't."
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[Murmur the Fallen]

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
Despite my intial intention of starting with 1632 and On Basilisk Station, I actually read some of the Miles Vorkosigan books.
I read these books out of order, but given that they were published in a non-chronological manner I did not feel that badly about it. And the helpful timeline at the end of the books were much appreciated.
I picked up these up at my local library, which has a lot of Baen books.
The first book I read was Cetaganda. This was very good, with a nice tourist, de toqueville-esque observation. You got the idea just how different the russian-tinged barrayar and the decadent cetaganda. They're both pretty stratified cultures, but the two castes and the bubbles the higher-caste women are in is pretty fascinating. And the relationship between miles and his cousin was great.
Then I read Komarr, A Civil Campaign, and much of Diplomatic Immunity.
Komarr was a brisk read, enjoyable and with nice twists. The crushing shame and perpetual debt-ridden nature of Ekatarine was nicely done out, though Miles' character was a bit . . . less present. It was more Ekatarine's story than Miles'. Very southern gothic.
A Civil Campaign and then Diplomatic Immunity . . .
It started off well enough, being a more comedy of manners type of story. But then it just became a sort of soppy and twee. Diplomatic Immunity I just couldn't finish. It wasn't that it was bad, and neither was A Civil Campaign. It's just that it was boring. I am utterly indifferent to these two books. And that's perhaps the worst thing you can say about a book. If you hate a book, at least it evoked passion. I feel nothing for them.
The Miles character is drawn from a long lineage of folklore dwarfs, who use their cunning and wits to overcome their short stature. But the character does overcome that, particularly as he has to deal with the physical consequences of his ambition with his seizures and his pain.
But I found Ekatarine a cliche, a pastiche of soap opera tropes and second-generation feminist ideals (not that second-generation feminist ideals are a bad thing) mashed together without any sort of real character beyond them.
So: Cetaganda: great. Komarr: good to great. The last two: not so much.
-murmur

[ECSNorway]

Yeah... go back and check out some of Miles' earlier adventures, like The Warrior's Apprentice and The Vor Game. That's him at his best... in ACC and DI he's kind of... well... old. --
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[khagler]

I'll second what others have noted: while Baen does have a lot of "right wing" authors, they cover the entire political spectrum. Eric Flint isn't just a lefty, he's an actual Communist--his author bios in some of his older books even boasted of his membership in the Socialist Worker's Party. He's actually a pretty good writer, and not nearly as openly political as some of the other writers.
Tom Kratman and Michael Williamson are definitely _not_ libertarians--I says this as someone who _is_ a libertarian. Kratman, from what I've seen, is pretty much a "Freeper" type. And one of his books (co-written with John Ringo) tries to make the SS (yes, _that_ SS) out to be good guys, so I guess you could say there's nothing crypto about his fascism.
Williamson is a really good writer, and I recommend "The Weapon" as an excellent look into the mindset of a terrorist--where he comes from, how he justifies his actions to himself, etc. Strong stomach required, though. I generally don't recommend books with unsympathetic protagonists, but this one is worth it for the educational value.
If you want an example of an actual libertarian author, Baen publishes "Forge of the Elders" by L. Neil Smith. Be warned, though--libertarians exist outside the conventional "left/right" political spectrum. Pretty much everybody hates us. ;-)
Baen has a whole bunch of their older books available for free on their website.

[Star Ranger4]

---

Tom Kratman and Michael Williamson are definitely _not_ libertarians--I says this as someone who _is_ a libertarian. Kratman, from what I've seen, is pretty much a "Freeper" type. And one of his books (co-written with John Ringo) tries to make the SS (yes, _that_ SS) out to be good guys, so I guess you could say there's nothing crypto about his fascism.

---

That would be Watch on the Rhine, ja?"I was an Otaku before those kids came along and changed the meaning of the word."
-- HM "Howling Mad" Wilson to more than one team-mate.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[ECSNorway]

Yeah, that's the one. He'd already established that the aliens had bought off the socialists in the government in order to hamstring the military, so the people who actually wanted to fight against the alien invasion had to turn to the only hardcore soldiers left -- the SS.
A lot of people consider this to be a highly questionable decision to focus a book on, for reasons that I think we can all agree are obvious.--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[M Fnord]

Cue tl;dr post about how anybody who thought Watch on the Rhine was glorifying Nazis is obviously interrogating the text incorrectly (and probably voted for Hillary, to boot) in 5... 4... 3...---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Kokuten]

---

Cue tl;dr post

---

good point, nevermind then.
Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[kentmagus]

My opinions.
I read Doc Sidhe. I promptly forgot it. Either that or I simply imagined reading it.Ashes of Victory-stopped after that one. That's the only Honor Harrington I've read.Eric Flint-1632 series. . I skimmed over entire chapters.I read the first Paladin of Shadows novel. He enraged me enough that if I ever meet him I will attempt some serious bodily harm. I doubt anyone would believe that a terrorist captured a female college student because of provocative dress(Only a thought of the protagonist regarding political parties). I read Prince Roger McClintock. I read some passages of Belisarius and put it back on the shelf. Northworld....the mystery stays unsolved. Forward the Mage is terrible. The Philosophical Stranger is better. The Creatures of Man and a Logic named Joe are best spent reading something else.
I do love the Lay of Bahzell Bloody Hand. I read them over and over. I like Empire from the Ashes. I have read Miles Vorkosigan adventures. They're interesting because one just has to see how much trouble he can get into and out of. The Cetagandan Order of Merit would cause interesting comments. I loved Path of the Fury. My favorite part was when the commander said she'd have won even if she had only been armed with a knife. I liked Pyramid Scheme and Pyramid Power. I read the Road to Damascus and I am moved to emotion by the final chapter which has guest characters of all the previous Bolos and still stands alone. I read Pandora's ::Legions over and over. I read the Interstellar Patrol over and over. Some of the Trouble with Aliens is recommended. I read off Armageddon Reef and it was attention-grabbing. I keep reading it over. Boundary is neat. Could be better.
I read Watch on the Rhine-.It was.. different. I read the Excalibur Alternative. They get saved by a deus ex machina. I read the Apocalypse Troll. Lackluster. The Wizard of Karres and the Witches of Karres? Huh?
Summary.
I recommend Interstellar Patrol 1 and 2, The Trouble With Aliens(second and third part of the book), Pandora's Legions, Pyramid Power, Off Armageddon Reef, and the Lay of Bahzell Bloody-Hand.
"Evil tends to triumph over good...unless good is very, very sneaky."-Anonymous-

[ECSNorway]

Let me just start by saying that Ashes of Victory is a horrible place to pick up the Honor Harrington books. It's very much the low point of the series. Try the first couple that are in the Free Library, much better reads (and better editing).
There will be a sequel to Boundary fairly soon. For those of you who have a history in Usenet, "Ryk Spoor" is better known as "Sea Wasp"...
As for Travis Taylor - Warp Drive was a fun read. The Quantum Connection, its sequel, made me want to chuck the book across the room. Unfortunately I was reading it on my PDA...
What turned you off about Belisarius?--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.