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vorticity Wrote:Actually, this doesn't have anything to do with the law about obscenity. Google can't sell ads to advertisers on sites where there's porn, so they push that requirement onto websites that use AdSense. I've noticed that, really, the major credit card companies also have the same "gives us the willies" reaction to porn, they seem to want it to go away as bad as the moral guardians... as well as the payment processors. There's one adult provider that I know the proprietor personally, and he's on something like his third or fourth one of those.
I will say, it's probably not about the law, it's more likely they're just trying very, very, very hard not to get the call "we're asking you be boycott unless you pull the plug".
Quote:There are companies who do sell ads on porn sites, but they're generally for other porn sites.
I recall those. Granted, in this case, the separation is quite understandable. I've seen those ads on some sites, and it seems like I just can't hit Back fast enough.
Quote:So its an advertiser issue, though Google has final say, so to speak, due to its monopoly power. But can Google be faulted for its infamously bad customer service? Yep.
It is always an advertiser issue. Even worse are the ones like the Gamespot debacle 5-6 years ago, where an advertiser complained about a review, spooked the PTB at Gamespot, they canned the writer in an overreaction.... and found that the reputation that they'd carefully built over a decade was blown away inside of two weeks as a consequence of that. In fact, I think they've basically had the complete slide into irrelevance, where now they're just a glorified forum.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
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I can understand people not wanting to have porn ads on a non-porn site... but the other way around just doesn't make any sense to me.
Convent violations thread is back open again. Doesn't seem like there's any point in discussing the rape trope issue until there's more information from google anyway.* Time for more defense of Popotan...
*And why was the discussion of this stuffed in that thread anyway? It's not really about content violations anyway, or at least not violations of TV Tropes's rules.
(Why does a show with a practically miniscule amount of fanservice have such a reputation for it anyway?)
-Morgan.
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Even if you have to have ads on your website, it's not like Google AdSense really has a monopoly. I already suggested Project Wonderful before in this very thread because it's an ad service that honestly does try to live up to its namesake.
Thesilentjackofalltrade
Unregistered
The chances of another website like unto TV Tropes coming up just as strong is low.
It would require a lot of work, effort, and MONEY.
_____________
Veni, vidi, vici. [I came, I saw, I conquered
Quote from Julius Caesar
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vorticity Wrote:I really do think that we should cool the discussion about forking the site for a bit. I notice that Bob's not posting, and other people are a bit wary. In my experience, this probably means that I failed a wisdom check somewhere. Oh, no, it's just that I don't have anything meaningful to contribute at this point. I like the idea of an alternative trope archive, but I have already declined to take part in the administration thereof, so I'm simply watching to see what evolves out of this discussion.
(I'm also concerned that my recent massive explosion in creative energy is because I'm no longer putting brainshare into troping, and worried that if I get drawn back into it that my writing would once again stumble and peter out.)
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Morganni Wrote:Convent violations thread is back open again. They're having problems with nuns, now, too? Wow.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:(I'm also concerned that my recent massive
explosion in creative energy is because I'm no longer putting
brainshare into troping, and worried that if I get drawn back into it
that my writing would once again stumble and peter out.) You mean my total lack of writing lately might have something to do with the internet drama I've been participating in? Sir, get thee to a nunnery!
-- ∇×V
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Hey, vorticity, someone found your 'test page'! It took more than 24 hours though, since when I checked it around that time it hadn't been reported.
Bob Schroeck Wrote:Morganni Wrote:Convent violations thread is back open again. They're having problems with nuns, now, too? Wow.
... I don't get it.
On the money thing, I ran into something interesting somewhere on the forums - supposedly they use up more of the funds than the wiki does. Which might influence how one views that part of the issue.
-Morgan.
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Convent Violations = bad things happening to the abbey
Content Violations = the thing that got everyone all riled up in the first place
-Terry
-----
"so listen up boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today"
TF2: Spy
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Brent, I notice that your backup archive request has been pretty much ignored, at least in-thread. Any response on any other front?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
@vorticity
The "test page" is dead.
In fact, not long after it was discovered, the P5 went into overdrive in their haste to kill it.
Hilariously enough, they seem to think it wasn't created recently, instead believing it was just something they missed during their first sweep.
And, on that note, am I the only one who had found this whole page deletion business to be the internet equivalent to a book burning?
In fact, another reason I'd be happy with a non politicized TV Tropes alternative is so this sort of abomination need not occur.
In fact, I actually preferred the days when TV Tropes reveled in being LESS uptight than Wikipedia. Now, Wikipedia would blush at their level of censorship.
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As far as backups go, if you're looking to snag a local copy of a website, I'd use HTTrack. Point it at the main page, and it'll copy and link-crawl from their to each of the indexes and each trope page that's still up. Just don't be surprised if it takes a very long time, or takes up a lot of HD space.
---
The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
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Uh, it wasn't created recently. It was made in march of last year.
@morganni
Thanks for correcting my error.
Anyway, I think we can assume, even if the chains of Google are to be cast aside, it would be best to use a web archiver to save what we can (the HTML source pages especially) now and consider what is present a sad shell of its former glory.
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vorticity% wc -l pagelist.txt downloaded.txt
131230 pagelist.txt
22949 downloaded.txt
154179 total
Damn, there are a lot of pages on TV Tropes. I finished a custom downloader last night that should pull the source of every page with at least one wick. At the current rate (slightly under 1 Hz), it should take a couple of days to backup the entire wiki.
Yeah, I didn't make a hentai page just to screw with them. I like my not-banned state. In fact, I posted about it here, on the assumption that a moderator from TV Tropes would find it, and enforce their content policy. Am I not a model citizen? (The test was that it was very difficult to find, and the chance of another person finding it by accident like I did was very small.)
-- ∇×V
@vorticity
You did the right thing, and I support you wholeheartedly.
BTW, once you are done with your project, would you mind posting a download link where to get these HTML source pages?
I for one would be quite happy to get my hands on them, as would anyone trying to spider the TV Tropes wiki.
And, on that note, I found a link people may be interested in:
http://tvtropesmirror.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
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When I'm done with this, there's going to be a torrent, and you need to help me seed this thing, Rpg1. I'm on a DSL line with a somewhat abysmal 35kB uprate (thanks AT&T), so I'm going to need help putting this back into the net. On the upside, plaintext like this should compress nicely, hopefully to around 33% of its original size. Maybe I'll use sneakernet and co-opt some of my local friends' pipes.
If those folks over there want to use the data, they can. It's CC-BY-SA licensed, so anyone is free to reproduce and distribute the information the tropers created, so long as they continue to use the same license. 
-- ∇×V
@vorticity
I'd recommend getting a mediafire account and uploading it via direct download as well.
I'd also use 7zip to compress this as small as possible.
Also, I have the same program you do (and a better internet connection), and I was wondering how I can tweak the save feature to just get the HTML source pages only.
After all, I'd LOVE to help you, but I really don't feel like have to wade through mountains of crap to do it. If I have to, I will, but I'd like to download as little extraneous garbage as possible.
Regardless, let me know when/if this torrent is ready, and I'll see what I can do to help you make DDL versions of this archive. I can try helping you seed as well, but for some reason my connection is friendly to direct downloads and hates torrents.
Otherwise, let me know how I can help.
P.S. - The people at the link I posted use the exact same license.
Not sure if its the best place to mirror TV Tropes, but it seems to have the most already in place to do so, and they are in dire need of editors and ported over HTML code. Otherwise, I took a look at it, and it would be feasible to port most to all of the essentials of TV Tropes over to.
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Wikia is well known as a bad place, period. It's a place people move wikis *from*, not *to*.
-Morgan.
@morganni
I don't know.
I just got in touch with the guy who runs that wiki, and he seems pretty affable and decent to me. His TOS is way less restrictive than the current TV Tropes TOS (it more resembles what TV Tropes was before it was made into its more politicized incarnation), and after reading his moderation history he's far less of an Orwellian Editor than He Who Pulls Fast Ones.
I even pointed him in the direction of this very conversation so he might get a better idea what other people think of what's going on.
As for the wiki itself, it's in a larval state right now, and it sorely needs some editors, but it doesn't seem all that hideous from where I'm standing.
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Wikia displays... poorly... in my version of SeaMonkey.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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Morganni Wrote:Wikia is well known as a bad place, period. It's a place people move wikis *from*, not *to*. Yes. I've heard much the same. The issue isn't who's running the wiki, but who's running the wiki farm. Wikia is a for-profit venture founded by Jimmy Wales, and well... just look at the Controversy section on the Wikipedia page. And then realize that Wales is on the board of directors of both Wikia and Wikipedia, so what's said there could have been far worse.
Anyway, the data set I'm building is for anyone to use. I imagine it's not too different that what Morgan Wick did a long time ago to find wicks. One could use it to do scientific research on the internal networking of wikis, or research on the use of certain idioms among tropers. It's not affiliated with any project at this time.
-- ∇×V
@vorticity
I did not know this information. Thanks for enlightening me.
I guess the thought of something other than TV Tropes as a bastion of trope knowledge has gotten me overly excited.
...yeah, I admit, my bias against what TV Tropes is pretty bad, so please (and this goes for everyone), warn me if my over exuberance is leading me where angels fear to tread.
Anyhoo, thanks for being willing to build a gigantic archive of HTML source for everyone to use.
Again, your effort is appreciated.
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Check this out.
The thing about wikia staff impersonating people particularly bugs me.
Note that the person who you talked to probably wasn't a wikia staff member.
But in general, I really don't want wikia getting a piece of this pie, or any other.
On a different note: vorticity, is that thing you're using getting subpages too? Some of those contain at least as much content as the main pages they're associated with.
-Morgan.
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