Eyrie Thread 2: Overtech Boogie-Shoes

[Mamorien]

After a little over eight years, the previous EPU thread went into overtime here.

Operation Blackout, an untold but evidently upcoming tale from the Golden Age of the WDF, gets a mini-story prologue. In 2168, a trainee MechWarrior and second-generation Wedge Rat* has to take a friend to her doctor's appointment, but don't worry; they'll be Traveling in Style.

* Whose BPGD file, I discovered when I went to check some points of chronology, apparently got munged at some point. Someone with Forum posting access might want to notify the mods, or if I can get such access after the move, I'll do it myself if still necessary.

[Mamorien]

Presumably, this elbowed ahead of Operation Blackout and onto the What's New page by whatever means were necessary.

At the top level of the International Police Organization's Special Assignment branch, the Experts of Justice, it's not entirely unknown for an agent to have a hard day at the office that leaves behind unanticipated consequences. Someone forgot to tell Geoff Depew (sic) it wasn't a competition. Undocumented Features Future Imperfect: Fable of the Reconstruction

I haven't personally read it yet, so I don't know for sure whether it's the story I, for one, have been wondering if we'd see since the artist now known as Jen Dantes announced her new name(s). The summary, as you can see, doesn't rule it out, but it doesn't lock it down either.

[Matrix Dragon]

*Chuckles.*

Yeah, it's Jens story alright.

[mephron]

Presumably, this elbowed ahead of Operation Blackout and onto the What's New page by whatever means were necessary.

At the top level of the International Police Organization's Special Assignment branch, the Experts of Justice, it's not entirely unknown for an agent to have a hard day at the office that leaves behind unanticipated consequences. Someone forgot to tell Geoff Depew (sic) it wasn't a competition. Undocumented Features Future Imperfect: Fable of the Reconstruction

I haven't personally read it yet, so I don't know for sure whether it's the story I, for one, have been wondering if we'd see since the artist now known as Jen Dantes announced her new name(s). The summary, as you can see, doesn't rule it out, but it doesn't lock it down either.

Didn’t so much elbow in front of as needed less Gryph attention, so I did it, he proofed and edited a bit of it, and it got out.

And yes, it is mine. If people have questions I can happily answer them.

[Mamorien]

*blows dust off thread* Despite the struggle to exist sanely as a live organism while being repeatedly run down by the drunken taxicabs of Absolute Reality, Gryphon has managed to pull together enough spoons to do an HD/HTML remaster of Bubblegum Crisis: The Iron Age #1: Meet Interesting Singles in Your Area. Chapters 2 and 3 to follow with all deliberate speed.

[Matrix Dragon]

And part two is up.

http://www.eyrie-productions.com/TIA/tia02.html

[nocarename]

I do hope this comes with fresh audiobooks at some point. I liked the originals, but lost 'em in a small computer issue during one of the earlier lock downs.

[Mamorien]

And the sequence is complete.

http://www.eyrie-productions.com/TIA/tia03.html

[Mamorien]

Flush with success from the TIA remasters, Gryph found the HTML workup for such Cybertron Reloaded instalments as were originally published in text format and has up{dat;grad}ed them. I have no serious expectation that this will bring us any closer to the long-awaited Episode 7, but feller say hope is the greatest of all treasures.

[Mamorien]

In 2356, a warp drive accident transported the fugitive Gryphon to a parallel universe - one in which he was a complete unknown, not an accused mass murderer with a price on his head. Free to start all over again, but unable to escape his own best destiny, he joined Starfleet and eventually surpassed his achievements as a member of the Wedge Defense Force, rising to command his own starship. As captain of the Invincible, with a loyal crew behind him and a galaxy to explore, he was content... but he should have known better if he thought he could leave the past behind him forever.

Based in part on (and replacing) the 1993 UF story Secrets, this is the story of how the end of the Exile began.

And now, at a time almost as far-removed from its serialization as it was from the publication of its predecessor, Manhunt becomes the latest EPU work to get the remaster treatment.

[Mamorien]

And now he's remastered Star-Crossed (which he was already planning to do on account of its proximity to Manhunt) and Futureshock (on what he describes as "a completely random whim").

[Mamorien]

First update to the What's New page in a year and a half, give or take a fast week.

In which strange(r even than usual) forces gather in wartime Gallia: Mythic Dawn, an Our Witches at War special episode in five introductory chapters, to be posted first on the Forum, then compiled and continued as a regular story file. Chapter 1: "Death Takes a (Mandatory) Holiday"

Gryph said something, in a post I thought about quoting here, to the effect that the Hololive folken had broken the creative logjam from which he'd been suffering for a while, had been the missing pieces for which he was waiting to move certain things forward. I'm just at the point where Harley meets a reaper, but if that reaper be who I think she is, I think we're seeing that cryptic promise start to play out.

[Bob Schroeck]

I really need to catch up on OWAW. I sort of fell out of reading it way back when Remilia Scarlet's younger sister -- not a Touhou fan, I can't remember her name -- first showed up.

[Mamorien]

OWaW Mythic Dawn Chapter 2: "Ostflamme"

[STMPD]

Not really an update, so not sure if this is okay, but oh, look, I’m posting on this forum again!

Anyway: Hopelessly lost has been a comfort food fic for me for almost a decade when I first discovered BGC fanfiction, its balls-to-the-wall supertech adventures in the first three parts and more personal fourth part are just unabashedly fun. Gryph has a remarkable talent for writing pseudo-SIs that are at once drawing on his own life but don’t feel like the most powerful dude in the fic entirely. He knows how to ground this character as separate from himself. Iron Age is really clever too in its blending of Marvel and Crisis.

Actually, side anecdote: I was at ACEN in liiiiike 2023, at an anime fanfic panel where PJ Moyer was at, and asked one question about AO3 and AI - and one to Moyer about if Gryph has plans to keep on writing TIA. I did not know about Gryph’s health problems. I felt like a dope.

But main point is that I just speedread Warrior’s Legacy and it’s so goddamn good, and in the same ways. That same establishment of a fast-paced, swashbuckling globetrotting tone mixed with a really solid ability to make its two protags - and the Worcester these fics often return to with a caring specificity - barely feel like self-inserts at all. The massive world of Undocumented Features is so big I fear venturing beyond the four core volumes but there’s this spirit to these three non-main stories that I keep coming back to - that I wish I knew how to write too. God Dayum.

Seriously, though. I’ve tried countless times to do a great big Unregulated Wish Fulfillment Adventure, but I get too self-conscious too fast. My massive praiseposting aside, I wish I knew how to do that sort of thing. Any thoughts?

[drakensis]

If you want to get into UF, I recommend trying the Symphony of the Sword. That's long but it builds up gradually as our main viewpoint is also a new arrival learning about the universe she has entered.

My writing advice for this is to remember that you need to be mean to your main character, SI or otherwise. Give them a big adventure and then remind them that "adventure" is someone far away going through hell. A first act that sets them up with promise and shows the reward off in the distance, a second act where the reward is yanked out of reach through personal flaws and/or outside enemies, then a third act where the protagonist wins through.

To use UF as an example, the first couple of parts are act 1 - the build up of the WDF as the grand forces of good. Then Exile hits and smashes all that. Finally, part 4 is the act 3 where the main four have to face their flaws and overcome them to claw victory back.

[Matrix Dragon]

Symphony was also started over a decade after Gryph and co started writing fanfiction, allowing it to benefit from what they'd learned over the years. Where as the four Core stories are very much showing their inexperience, being barely controlled references at times. Also, feel free to ask questions on the EPU forums. They're a lot quieter than they used to be, but a lot of people still check it out regularly.

[drakensis]

As an aside, Gryphon has recorded much of Symphony of the Sword as an audio-book. Not text-to-speech, him reading them out. it's a great way to experience the stories.

[STMPD]

If you want to get into UF, I recommend trying the Symphony of the Sword. That's long but it builds up gradually as our main viewpoint is also a new arrival learning about the universe she has entered.

My writing advice for this is to remember that you need to be mean to your main character, SI or otherwise. Give them a big adventure and then remind them that "adventure" is someone far away going through hell. A first act that sets them up with promise and shows the reward off in the distance, a second act where the reward is yanked out of reach through personal flaws and/or outside enemies, then a third act where the protagonist wins through.

To use UF as an example, the first couple of parts are act 1 - the build up of the WDF as the grand forces of good. Then Exile hits and smashes all that. Finally, part 4 is the act 3 where the main four have to face their flaws and overcome them to claw victory back.

Oh, okay, thanks! Symphony of the Sword is probably a really good jumping-in point given how prolific updates were a few years ago. I’ll give it a shot.

As for the ‘ding your main character’ - absolutely. Other SIs of the era (and often of this modern day era, don’t get me started on Cyberpunk Edgerunners fanfiction) don’t work because they don’t try to do that. And, hey, over in my screenwriting MFA they talk about how to use that challenge to give a character an arc, though maybe there’s a learning point there given how much I’ve struggled to make an arc have meaning and blend with the ostensible fun part of a feature’s pitch… ugh.

Hell, even in the long-running fanfics I’m working on, I struggle to make arcs concise and / or precise. Stuff just keeps happening, keeps building. I’ve been increasingly anxious that non fight scene chapters don’t make the reader squirm the way they ought to.

Well. Huh. Maybe taking a second shot at something shorter in the EPU style with structure in mind could be a learning experience. Worth thinking about.

[Bob Schroeck]

Thirding the advice on being hard on your SI. Actually... I have a whole list of advice for Self-Insert characters in my fic writer's guide... let me go grab the relevant section to save you some time and effort. (Although, if you want to read the whole, incomplete thing, a not-quite-the-latest version can be found here.)

xx. Rules for Self-Inserts

• Your SI should be there to *supplement* the plot, not *supplant* it. Help the other characters achieve their goals, do not achieve those goals for or instead of them. Don't steal their awesome -- help them get *more* awesome.
  
• No one likes a show-off. Even if you are far more competent or powerful than the other characters, do not run roughshod over them. Complement them. (*Not* "compliment".) If necessary, give yourself a valid and believable in-story reason why you can't just wave your hand and fix everything, even if that's actually in your power to do. This is not to say you can't give your SI the occasional set-piece that shows off how powerful or competent they are, but don't do it too often, and *never* at the expense of the setting's heroes.
  
• At least some of the characters your SI meets and interacts with should *not* like your SI. And I don't mean the bad guys -- that's a given. Some of the *heroes* should find him suspicious, or too mysterious to be trustworthy, or just plain annoying (*especially* if he acts like a typical SI). Conflict drives a story, and conflict among the good guys makes it *interesting* -- what good is knowing the entire plot if no one wants to listen to you? And what I said about the bad guys a moment ago? What if some of the bad guys *like* your SI regardless of his opinions on the matter?
  
• Similarly, your SI shouldn't automatically like all the heroes and hate all the villains, even if he's coming in with full knowledge and awareness of what's going on. He may *want* to, but frankly, I can think of a dozen protagonists from as many genres whom I love to read about or watch but whom I would find incredibly irritating in person. (I'm looking at *you*, Ranma Saotome.) Let your SI dislike anyone who deserves it -- and when appropriate, *like* anyone who deserves it, as well -- regardless of their "side".
  
• Even if your SI is deliberately there to get involved in the plot, don't drop him right in the middle of the action. A self-insert story will play better if your character arrives on the outskirts of what's going on, and has to find his way to the fun -- or accidentally stumbles over it. Your SI should also have interests and priorities that have nothing to do with the main plot -- like, for instance, *leaving* the story's world if he was sent there involuntarily. If the only thing he does while there is dog the main characters' steps, he's going to look like a creepy stalker to them -- and maybe even to your readers.
  
• If your SI is allegedly unaware of what he's getting into, don't write his reactions with *your* knowledge. The prime example of this is someone dropped into a whole new (and unfamiliar) world automatically sussing out who the good guys are and who the bad guys are without any thought or effort. Only in the most black-and-white worlds should this be believable. (For a great example of an SI ignorant of the world he's been dropped into feeling his way through it, check out the "Revolutionary Girl Utena" fic "Ma Vie et Roses" by Scott Johnson and Scott K. Jamison.)
  
• No matter how powerful or capable your SI is, *someone* will at least *try* to get the better of him -- and you know, they should succeed at least once. If you can't be beaten, you can't be truly challenged, and if you can't be challenged, you have no conflict to drive a story. And remember -- they don't have to challenge you where you excel. Just because you're invulnerable, can lift mountains, and can waltz invisibly into the bad guys' headquarters doesn't mean you can't be out-thought or out-planned.
  

To re-emphasize the first point above, a quote from elsewhere in my guide:

The First Commandment of Interventions:
"Thou shalt not cockblock someone else's torrid affair with awesomeness." -- Alistair Young


And after that, I had this pasted in as something to draw inspiration from. Several of its points already echo things I've said above, but there's other good advice here, too:

PsyckoSama's Rules for Self-Inserts

https://www.fanfiction.net/u/285562/PsyckoSama

The Ten Commandments of Writing an SI:

I: The SI is not you. It’s a character based on you. Remember this and maintain a degree of emotional detachment at all times. Treat your SI like you would any other character.

II: Know your strengths and flaws. If you can’t think of any, invent a couple. It’s only based on you after all.

III: Have a couple prereaders with good bullshit detectors who are willing to smack you upside the head when you approach the Sue Zone. Even just having someone to bounce ideas off of can do a world of good and help kill some very bad ideas.

IV: You are not an ironclad badass. In most of these series you’d be the extra who gets eaten by the aliens/demons/zombies and write accordingly. People are paranoid, panicky creatures and chances are you are no different. Remember this. Things can change with time but that’s what character development is for (See Rule VII).

V: Life is a mixed bag. Shit happens and it happens to you, don’t be afraid to torture yourself a bit. That said, remember, the good comes with the bad. With that in mind remember the following two sub-rules.

Va: Avoid wish fulfillment. Good things can happen to you (see above) but your SI should never be an engine created specifically to allow you to be awesome, loved by everyone, and get all the chicks. If that’s what you really want, I’d suggest putting down the keyboard and reaching for a kleenex.

Vb: Avoid wangst. While it's necessary for bad things to happen to create tension, drama, and to propel the plot forward, avoid throwing yourself a pity party. Someone who only has bad things happen to them is just as annoying as someone who only has good things happen. When you go too far it becomes obnoxious cartoonish.

VI: Life goes on, with or without you. Do not make the universe wait on you, for life waits for no man. This is especially important in video game SIs. If you’re actually in the universe, treat it like a living breathing world. It’s not a magical playground that sits on its hands while you randomly run around and do awesome shit.

VII: Balance your flow of time. Don’t rush what you write. While you might want to skip to the good stuff, doing so can be jarring and make your character look like a Mary Sue. Show us your character is growing and making friends, don’t just tell us. On the same note, be careful not to get bogged down in the minutia. There is such a thing as too much detail. We don’t need to see everything. If you’re training, you can show a montage. If you’re looking at a long span of time where nothing out of a ordinary is going to happen, consider a time skip. Things are permitted to happen in the background.

VIII: Throw curve balls at yourself. Even if you’re in a rather tight setting, your presence can create butterflies. In a loose one, you don’t know what’s around the bend. Good or bad, better or worse, do you find something or don’t you? I suggest the use of a randomizer. Flip a coin, roll some dice, pull pieces of paper out of a hat. Don’t let this do you thinking for you, but it can point you in directions you’d never have considered, and having a good chance to standing tall or fall flat on their face will do much to keep your character honest. But remember, you're not slave to the dice. Just let it point you in a direction, think about it, and see what comes out. You can sometimes come up with some amazing ideas that you never would have considered this way, even if it in no way resembles the original dice result.

IX: Be careful with the use of meta-knowledge. Meta-knowledge should stay that. Meta. Be careful who you tell, and only tell those you trust. If you make what you know common knowledge, you will attract all sorts, and mostly for ill. No one likes a know it all, especially evil wizards, secret societies, and evil military dictatorships bent on total domination.

X: This rule is related to rule IV and Vb in many ways, but deserves restating. In most cases you are not the main character of the universe. Events don’t revolve around you. There are others for that. You are a secondary character, if not background extra. To make yourself a main character, either hang with the mains, or do something, stand up and make the universe pay attention to you. But do remember, being a member of the central cast is a mixed bag. It often means you have the protection of plot, but on the same note, it means your life is always going to be interesting, and there is a very good reason that the ancient Chinese used it as a curse.

[drakensis]

Fusion settings are a great way to shake up an SI's ability to use their foreknowledge.

Sure, they know one setting. They don't necessarily know the other(s) and they really are going to have to guess how those settings are influencing each other. I had fun with this in Hate has a reason for everything: But Love is Unreasonable - the protagonist knew and was ready for Mobusekai, but was not expecting Hamefura, or the intertwining of multiple characters from other settings. While I'd not say it's on a level with Undocumented Features at all, and I stumbled repeatedly towards the end, the mid-arc dramas where relationships were tangling up were a lot of fun to write and to re-read.

The 'theatre' arc, with the first kidnapping is in many ways amusing because the SI is flirting with treason, with high treason (those who know know) and with his actual love interest, while everything else solves itself based on things set in motion previously. He's very side-character to everything because while he'd had an influence and would continue to do so, events did not require his direct intervention.