So it seems there wasn't a Politics Images thread before either

[Norgarth]

[Norgarth]

EDIT: Yes, yes, they should, Raven.

[Inquisitive Raven]

Shouldn't those be in the videos thread, not the images thread?

[Norgarth]

[Norgarth]

[robkelk]

Somebody tell these people that "running water, Internet, and an insanely high food supply" were all created by governments spending massive amounts of tax money on these projects after private companies either could not or would not do so. In short, they're all the results of socialism.

[Labster]

I don’t see what any of those things have to do with Greta Garbo

[Inquisitive Raven]

Somebody tell these people that "running water, Internet, and an insanely high food supply" were all created by governments spending massive amounts of tax money on these projects after private companies either could not or would not do so. In short, they're all the results of socialism.

Arguably not the insanely high food supply, although the farm subsidy program does facilitate it, not necessarily in beneficial ways. IIRC, despite the Dust Bowl, food prices collapsed during the Depression due to overproduction with the result that lots of farms across the country and not just in Dust Bowl territory folded. The original subsidy program was intended to prop up prices which it did in two ways. One was the government would buy a certain amount of food at a guaranteed minimum price for emergency stockpiles. The other was that the government would pay farmers not to plant specific fields, something that Heinlein makes fun of in Time Enough for Love. The funny thing is, I suspect that paying farmers to not plant every field served a second function as a soil conservation/flood control measure. Capitalism would never give consideration to such things (and, AFAIK, Heinlein was never a farmer).

I don't know exactly how the farm subsidy program works now, but I get the impression that it favors grains and soybeans over other crops that might be more nutritionally important to the average person, which is why corn syrup and soy are in practically everything.

[Norgarth]

[Spoilsport]

Nah, man, it's all the car seat regulations suppressing birth rates! /s

[Norgarth]

[Norgarth]

[robkelk]

Because "they" expect to receive a dividend funded from that taxpayers' money, of course. Who expects taxpayers' funding to go to the program that it says it funds?

[Norgarth]

[Labster]

Ah yes, this.  The moment you realize that your entire society is built on something specifically forbidden by the Bible: usury.  Capitalism is essentially institutionalized usury and debt.  Somehow abortion is bad when only a couple tangential references are made to a related concept, but usury is okay despite multiple books specifically forbidding it.

Or try bringing up the Jubilee with your conservative friends.  Shouldn't we do as the Bible says, and prohibit permanent sales of land, and return to each his property every 50 years?

Note these ideas are roughly as welcome as people referencing Chairman Mao's ideas today in China -- sure we believe in him, the parts we like, and those are the only parts you should believe in too.

[Norgarth]

[Norgarth]

[Norgarth]

[classicdrogn]

If you're watching a show about dragons or elves or lightsabers and instead of focusing on those and letting the actors carry their roles as individuals it keeps ramming modern day social issues in your face, the problem isn't the audience, it's the writers.

Not that sci fi and fantasy don't have a long and noble history of taking on contemporary social issues, but once upon a time it was done subtly, by dressing up the issue in fantastic trappings and letting it slide in as subtext, which I would even argue is more effective for generating social change as it doesn't engage the viewer's stubbornness by grabbing their collar and telling them "You're thinking wrong and you should feel bad," it just shows the protagonists coming to realize the conclusion you want to promote, or better yet shows them already acting in accordance with it and subtly draws attention to it after the fact, if at all, letting that behaviour sink in as a positive role model. I'm especially furious about how female characters are being written lately; if the only way your leading woman can look good is if all the men on screen are incompetent, useless idiots, that's a lot more misogynistic than your standard 90s "action girl has to prove herself to the team" set piece. Yes, even when Action Girl later needs to get helped out of a pinch by a dude, as long as the favor has been or is later returned, because that is how you show she's the equal of Action Guy.

TLDR: Equal wrongs is not equal rights

[robkelk]

It isn't an either/or case, CD - there's an entire continuum of opinions between those two extremes.

[Jinx999]

It isn't an either/or case, CD - there's an entire continuum of opinions between those two extremes.

Classic science fiction and fantasy was, of course, subtle and understated in its messaging and references to contemporary politics.

You know, like Star Trek or Narnia.

[classicdrogn]

Compared to the current offerings like Rings of Power or She-Hulk, let alone DiscoTrek or, say, Ghostbusters 2016?? Yes, Star Trek TOS was a model of goddamn subtlety. The Oinkbane the Deadly of social commentary! ST:First Contact is actually one of the examples I'd hold up for doing it really right, especially Lily Sloane, Cochrane's second in command who keeps their group organized and supplied, stays cool and gets right on top of repelling the intruders when their base is invaded, escapes and evades being recaptured after being stunned and transported to the ship by the TNG crew, STILL stays rational when space-zombies force a team up and everything is explained, and even calls Picard on his bullshit and makes him get his head on straight too.

The fact that all this is accomplished by a black woman is never shoved in your face. She just does it, and is black, and no one is surprised by those things. Being a badass and a capable administrator and technologically savvy is only notable because those traits are rare in isolation let alone combined, not because a black woman is displaying them.

As for Narnia, I never even caught on to the RL religious undertones of then until someone went out of their way to explain it and poke fun at me for admitting to liking them when I am vehemently anti-religion, so again I have to say yes. It did ruin them for me, but if that person hadn't had to go and be maximum asshole I can't say I'd ever have noticed, and might even have softened from my zero-tolerance stance if I had eventually figured it out, rather than having the worst kind of religious douchebaggery shoved in my face, making it the perfect counter example for why the current, aggressive tack is ineffective at best and counterproductive all too often even when it's sincere, let alone this bullshit of blaming whatever -ist-ism of the moment for people calling out lazy, shoddy writing that ignores the long established lore and tone of settings and/or characters to push whatever social agenda in the most blatant and offensive way possible.

Let me also be clear that I am in more than one of the social minority groups commonly being "defended" like this, and yes, shit's been bad and even where it's getting better it's not fast enough, and goddammit stop helping because you're just giving the reactionaries ammunition.

[Labster]

As for Narnia, I never even caught on to the RL religious undertones of then until someone went out of their way to explain it and poke fun at me for admitting to liking them when I am vehemently anti-religion, so again I have to say yes. It did ruin them for me, but if that person hadn't had to go and be maximum asshole I can't say I'd ever have noticed, and might even have softened from my zero-tolerance stance if I had eventually figured it out, rather than having the worst kind of religious douchebaggery shoved in my face, making it the perfect counter example for why the current, aggressive tack is ineffective at best and counterproductive all too often even when it's sincere, let alone this bullshit of blaming whatever -ist-ism of the moment for people calling out lazy, shoddy writing that ignores the long established lore and tone of settings and/or characters to push whatever social agenda in the most blatant and offensive way possible.

If you never caught on to the crypto-religious subtext in the Narnia books, you're basically the target audience for the Narnia books.  I'm sad that the person who pointed this out to you was rude about it, CS Lewis would have been appalled.  The whole idea was to take this world of fantasy and fun -- a story everyone can enjoy -- and then the reader can later pivot to the fact that Aslan is actually real, though he went by the name of Yeshua bin Yusuf in our world.  Lewis asks the reader to look at the story of Christ through a different lens, without all the trappings of Christianity, and see it for the adventure it really is.  Lewis was a convert from atheism, and like most converts, he wants to spread his passion to others.  The "Christian" you talked to went "maximum asshole" and did the Devil's work, from my perspective; Screwtape would be proud.

I feel ambivalent about Rings of Power's casting choices.  Lewis's friend Tolkien wrote these medieval tales, and medieval peoples were pretty homogeneous.  In the Roman era, there were African soldiers stationed in Britannia, but not so later.  It's also a TV show, so I should just relax.  But if you're not seeing that mountainous rectangular area to the southeast of the map as the province of Ottoman hordes threatening Christendom, well, you should consider it. I think black actors should get roles.  I also think it's okay if someone wants to make a medieval story about medieval people on its own terms.  But what I really, really want is a damn movie treatment of Beren and Lúthien already.

[Bob Schroeck]

...Okay, can we take this discussion out of the image thread, please?

[Dartz]

Footbal in the UK





Football fans in Ireland: