All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXXI

[Labster]

Ultimately I have been thinking about it on a sitewide basis. The last I heard, our offsite backups are in New York, and our main servers are in Salt Lake. Miraheze code is hosted by GitHub, a subsidiary of US-based Microsoft, and Mediawiki is developed by a SF-based but fairly internationally-staffed nonprofit. Plenty of geographical redundancy, but almost no geopolitical redundancy.

Fundamentally the problem has been a lack of non-US-based volunteers willing to serve on a board of directors. Right now, it would be simple legal process to transfer the Miraheze IP to a nonprofit outside the US and have the current org continue to operate it. But we need people willing to do that.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

User HeatEdgeSword has joined and identified they are an alt of DeluxiumDX. Doing a surface level look at their old activity, it looks like they left voluntarily previously? I’m not sure any action is needed, but wanted to point it out so it wasn’t buried in the edit logs.

[robkelk]

User HeatEdgeSword has joined and identified they are an alt of DeluxiumDX. Doing a surface level look at their old activity, it looks like they left voluntarily previously? I’m not sure any action is needed, but wanted to point it out so it wasn’t buried in the edit logs.

No worries, just make a note of it somewhere.

(We hardly ever use "Template:Alternate account" - this would be a good place to use it.)

[robkelk]

Fundamentally the problem has been a lack of non-US-based volunteers willing to serve on a board of directors. Right now, it would be simple legal process to transfer the Miraheze IP to a nonprofit outside the US and have the current org continue to operate it. But we need people willing to do that.

If I thought it wouldn't place the wiki farm as a whole at risk because I'm Canadian and the current political administration in the USA has all but declared war on Canada, I'd be happy to volunteer. But is it safe for Miraheze to have non-USA leadership at this time?

I cannot in good conscience take a leadership role at this time unless I know that doing so would be expressly to move the entire corporation out of the USA as quickly as possible. And, so far, I've heard nothing that would make me think that this is being seriously explored.

EDIT: This, of course, does not preclude me from gathering data for Miraheze. (Such as this high-level analysis of datacentres in three of the largest cities in Canada.)

[robkelk]

I just told "JJ Villarre7" that they're On Notice, for making exactly the same mistake that I pointed out to them two hours ago.

<sigh> I used to have so much patience...

[MilkmanConspiracy]

There are a few users that have edited for some time and seem to be productive editors with minimal issues. Would it be ok to propose autopatroling them? They are Legalman, Mr-Dusk14, and ArcMetatron. Of those Legalman and Mr-Dusk14 are single interest editors, while ArcMetatron has edited more widely.

[Bob Schroeck]

Would it be ok to propose autopatroling them?

That's exactly how that gets done -- one of us says, "hey, users X, Y, and Z have been doing a good job of editing without causing trouble for a while now, let's give them autopatrolled/automoderated."

And the rest of us think about it and say yes or no -- usually yes -- and everyone who got the pass gets elevated.

For my part, I've been thinking much the same about Legalman and ArcMetatron recently; Mr-Dusk14 hasn't come to my attention that I recall, which is usually a good thing, as it means he hasn't been causing trouble. So, sure, I'm okay with promoting all three.

[GethN7]

Would it be ok to propose autopatroling them?

That's exactly how that gets done -- one of us says, "hey, users X, Y, and Z have been doing a good job of editing without causing trouble for a while now, let's give them autopatrolled/automoderated."

And the rest of us think about it and say yes or no -- usually yes -- and everyone who got the pass gets elevated.

For my part, I've been thinking much the same about Legalman and ArcMetatron recently; Mr-Dusk14 hasn't come to my attention that I recall, which is usually a good thing, as it means he hasn't been causing trouble.  So, sure, I'm okay with promoting all three.

Likewise, let's give them their VIP pass.

[robkelk]

Fourth "yes" vote for all of them... which is a majority, so I'll do the deed. EDIT: And done. Could somebody else do the two remaining edit-conflict resolutions, please?

[robkelk]

Somebody's been busy - the "Missing end tag" Lint error list is down to 38 entries.

Thank you.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

Wouldn’t have happened without the efforts of yourself and others.

The remaining pages in that list are either user pages, edit restricted, or unrestricted templates.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

Odd question from Legalman - They want to write a synopsis for a game series, and was wondering if such a page would go under recap. I’m inclined to say a franchise page is best, but it would be acceptable to make a recap page for individual games?

Rob answered him, and my question too.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

I agree with Rob.  We need to be prepared for an instant switchover, if we don't move the wiki outright before then.

Out runway for operating legally in the United States may be running short. There is a proposed new law on obscene content according to Reason Magazine. Depending on how it’s implemented, we might be in the clear due to not directly hosting NSFW content, but the definition of possibly arousing or titillating the viewer seems incredibly broad.

I don’t think this should be a panic event, this senator has apparently tried before and failed. But we should seriously pursue a site backup outside the states.

[GethN7]

I agree with Rob.  We need to be prepared for an instant switchover, if we don't move the wiki outright before then.

Out runway for operating legally in the United States may be running short. There is a proposed new law on obscene content according to Reason Magazine. Depending on how it’s implemented, we might be in the clear due to not directly hosting NSFW content, but the definition of possibly arousing or titillating the viewer seems incredibly broad.

I don’t think this should be a panic event, this senator has apparently tried before and failed. But we should seriously pursue a site backup outside the states.

Agreed. This would smash against free speech protections so hard it's not funny. Also, to be frank, I seriously doubt, long-term, we have anything to worry about. We've been down this road before, and even under super conservatives worse than this free speech protections have generally held.

I may be in the minority here, but I say we just keep our heads down and this too shall pass, and we are unlikely to ever suffer harm from the circumstances that prompted this scare.

[aku]

I agree with Rob.  We need to be prepared for an instant switchover, if we don't move the wiki outright before then.

Out runway for operating legally in the United States may be running short. There is a proposed new law on obscene content according to Reason Magazine. Depending on how it’s implemented, we might be in the clear due to not directly hosting NSFW content, but the definition of possibly arousing or titillating the viewer seems incredibly broad.

I don’t think this should be a panic event, this senator has apparently tried before and failed. But we should seriously pursue a site backup outside the states.

Agreed. This would smash against free speech protections so hard it's not funny. Also, to be frank, I seriously doubt, long-term, we have anything to worry about. We've been down this road before, and even under super conservatives worse than this free speech protections have generally held.

I may be in the minority here, but I say we just keep our heads down and this too shall pass, and we are unlikely to ever suffer harm from the circumstances that prompted this scare.

As a counter point the last paragraph in https://www.science.org/content/blog-pos...-worldview

Obviously I can't just leave it at that level of despair. What is to be done? Public, visible opposition is key: a good part of all this big-boss bullshit is making it look like everyone agrees with you and/or no one dares oppose you. Break that illusion! Break it every chance you get. Do it in print, do it in public. Make more people aware of what's really going on, and make others feel as if they can speak up in turn. Protest up the levers of political power, too [...]

And keeping your head down feeds into the highlighted illusion.

[robkelk]

And keeping your head down feeds into the highlighted illusion.

Agreed.

To quote myself, over in Politics:

First they came for the immigrants, and I did not speak out — because I was not an immigrant.

Then they came for the bureaucrats, and I did not speak out — because I was not a bureaucrat.

Then they came for the judges, and I did not speak out — because I was not a judge.

When will they come for you — and will there be anyone left to speak?

— a pastiche of the words of Martin Niemöller

This is not a time to "just keep our heads down". Exercise your First Amendment rights... before you have no choice but to exercise your Second Amendment rights.

[Labster]

I agree with Rob.  We need to be prepared for an instant switchover, if we don't move the wiki outright before then.

Out runway for operating legally in the United States may be running short. There is a proposed new law on obscene content according to Reason Magazine. Depending on how it’s implemented, we might be in the clear due to not directly hosting NSFW content, but the definition of possibly arousing or titillating the viewer seems incredibly broad.

I don’t think this should be a panic event, this senator has apparently tried before and failed. But we should seriously pursue a site backup outside the states.

Agreed. This would smash against free speech protections so hard it's not funny. Also, to be frank, I seriously doubt, long-term, we have anything to worry about. We've been down this road before, and even under super conservatives worse than this free speech protections have generally held.

I may be in the minority here, but I say we just keep our heads down and this too shall pass, and we are unlikely to ever suffer harm from the circumstances that prompted this scare.

I'm a bit in-between.  Congress proposing a law is like, well, they have only barely managed to not destroy the market for T-bills, several times in the past few years.  How are they going to manage to pass any controversial laws?  After Obamacare, pretty much all major government actions have been made by the President and then the courts and Congress deciding if they want to go along with it after the fact.  So this specific bill isn't really a threat.

Of course, those specific conditions make authoritarian rule very attractive -- the squabbling elites can't govern, and we need a strong leader to take charge and get things done.  We really have to worry about Trump alone.  I think Trump himself wouldn't care to ban obscenity, since he doesn't really mind the gays or porn.  But as a tool to use against those who don't praise him in media?  Maybe.  I'd suspect he'd use different tools, however.

[Labster]

Since I'm editing the main work template, and we don't want to do that very often: How would we feel about changing the way that the Source tab works?  I've come around to thinking that we should perhaps not host source content at all, for a few reasons:
* Searching for some terms comes up with almost entirely Source subpages, making it harder to search the main wiki content
** Moving source to a different namespace would solve it, but make our normal pages slightly more expensive to load
* We're really not maintaining or improving source pages
* WikiSource exists, which handles all of the copyright notices, as well as having generally more readable text
** Compare their Alice to our Alice, for instance -- you can link to individual pages in their version, but not in ours
* It doesn't handle film and video at all, currently.  JustWatch exists, and we can point to them.  The same goes for a youtube source, if we know it.
* Some short sources, like poems, would be better off inlined on the work page itself

I know people like the idea of hosting something TVT doesn't, but would we be willing to make some changes here?

[robkelk]

Looks like we need to pay close attention to new used "Pluser".

Their first act was to commit plagiarism and copyright infringement in a proposed edit to the page "The Pokédex Extended Fanon Edition". That was caught in Moderation, and I've done the usual reject and explain why.

Their second act was to suggest that "we need a bot capable of rapidly moving text" so that plagiarism and copyright infringement could be done wholesale. Bob and I have already replied to that bit of harebrainery.

[robkelk]

At the other end of the "keep an eye on" spectrum, User:Fortossai has been doing a very good job in the month that they've been on ATT... and knows howto suggest changes while working within the existing rules. Is one month too short for suggesting automoderated rights?.

[Bob Schroeck]

Not at all. I've had much the same impression of Fortossai and would be willing to see him promoted to automod.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

I also support automodding them

[MilkmanConspiracy]

Their second act was to suggest that "we need a bot capable of rapidly moving text" so that plagiarism and copyright infringement could be done wholesale. Bob and I have already replied to that bit of harebrainery.

I’ve been preoccupied irl so I missed that. Do they know they can just scrape the web on their own and not involve random third parties in their infringement?

[MilkmanConspiracy]

I was about to point out that if he wants TVT content so badly he can start his own and abide by their license terms, but thought better of it. If he’s asking this in good faith he’s thicker than I am, and that’s saying something.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

Since I'm editing the main work template, and we don't want to do that very often: How would we feel about changing the way that the Source tab works?  I've come around to thinking that we should perhaps not host source content at all, for a few reasons:
* Searching for some terms comes up with almost entirely Source subpages, making it harder to search the main wiki content
** Moving source to a different namespace would solve it, but make our normal pages slightly more expensive to load
* We're really not maintaining or improving source pages
* WikiSource exists, which handles all of the copyright notices, as well as having generally more readable text
** Compare their Alice to our Alice, for instance -- you can link to individual pages in their version, but not in ours
* It doesn't handle film and video at all, currently.  JustWatch exists, and we can point to them.  The same goes for a youtube source, if we know it.
* Some short sources, like poems, would be better off inlined on the work page itself

I know people like the idea of hosting something TVT doesn't, but would we be willing to make some changes here?

Sorry I didn’t get around to replying earlier. This seems reasonable.