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Thinking about rewrites...
Thinking about rewrites...
#1
So, a couple weeks back I found out that one of my coworkers is an avid reader of Harry Potter fanfic.  She and I have traded some emails, and she's promised me a rundown on what she's already read from a list of recommendations I made for her, and what she hasn't.

I very deliberately left Drunkard's Walk VIII off that list, partly from modesty and partly from not wanting to point her at a stalled story that will be some years yet before completion.  However, last week I reread all of the released chapters from the perspective of a first-time reader of anything in the Walk and realized -- I bobbled Doug's introduction.  DW8 completely assumes you already know who Doug is and what he's about.  It doesn't even give as much info -- or hints -- as DW2 had at the same point in its story, and in DW2 I was very deliberately playing a tease-and-tidbit game with Doug's backstory.  DW8, though, reveals almost nothing.

I'm thinking I have to change that, if only to make the story more accessible to those coming to the Walk for the first time through it.  So I'll be adding little bits here and there -- nothing huge or dramatic (I think), but definitely informative.  And I'm starting a thread about it because I want to start a bit of a debate about the mistake, as I see it.  And I admit, if anyone comes up with a good idea that I can use, I'm definitely going to steal it.  And also just to alert people to the mistake so folks will be aware, and call me on it if I do it again.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#2
Recaps are usually good. Long, drawn-out recaps aren't.

I recall there's a spot or two in the story where Doug thinks that JKR's wizards and witches aren't very powerful. One of his comments to that effect might be a good spot to insert a quick (one- or two-sentence) description of how Doug's magegift works as a point of comparison, and then mention that he's aware of even more powerful mages back home.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#3
So the first use of the word "Doug[las]" is in The Burrow, 45kB into the story.  The second is in Hogsmeade, when Charlie introduces him to Professor McGonagall.  This is ungood.  Maybe have introduce himself to Charlie?  He can spell things out to the reader that he's purposely hiding from the dragon rangers.  Or you can always start with "Call me Douglas."  That's a classic.

Honestly I'm surprised I didn't notice it before either, but I guess we were all used to the tease-the-reader strategy, combined with the fact that Doug usually doesn't like to reveal much of his past for obvious reasons.  Still, it's time to include some more backstory.

I while back I wrote that post on EPU relating writing software to writing crossover fanfic.  One of the things that always confuses me is how differently people react to changes.  If software is broken, and someone fixes it with a patch, everyone is happy.  If a story has a broken element and someone fixes it, people go "OMG those are supposed to be guns, not walkie talkies!  Childhood ruined!1"  I still remember going into a midnight showing of The Phantom Menace, during the scene where they explain midiclorians.  And Tommy Salami turns to me and says, "They just ruined the Force."

This is largely a group of writers in this community, so we probably aren't going to object to any changes.  Writing is editing and refactoring.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#4
Labster Wrote:Or you can always start with "Call me Douglas." That's a classic.
True, but that's how I started DW-S, more or less. However, changing the interrogation scene with Charlie to insert backstory is a perfect starting point.
robkelk Wrote:I recall there's a spot or two in the story where Doug thinks that JKR's wizards and witches aren't very powerful. One of his comments to that effect might be a good spot to insert a quick (one- or two-sentence) description of how Doug's magegift works as a point of comparison, and then mention that he's aware of even more powerful mages back home.
Maybe not his magegift, but definitely the guys back home. I could also throw in the bit about the efficiency of the WW version of the magegift, too...

Thanks, guys.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#5
I might provide a dissenting voice. This is the 8th book in this cycle. I get the idea that it's supposed to make the Walk accessible to non Walkers who aren't familiar with it, but at the same time there're people who will have read most of the previous 'books in this story. I think Doug's world works better as something that builds through the entire cycle - it probably shouldn't explain who Doug is - jjust maybe make some sort of reference to 'If youve been reading these logs' to suggest that there is more story to consume elsewhere that explains this.

I love the smell of rotaries in the morning. You know one time, I got to work early, before the rush hour. I walked through the empty carpark, I didn't see one bloody Prius or Golf. And that smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole carpark, smelled like.... ....speed.

One day they're going to ban them.
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#6
It doesn't help that this book cycle is written out of order. But a summary introduction of Douglas Sangnoir would not be wrong; a certain degree of familiarity should be expected.
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#7
I'd note that a primary conceit of the Harry Potter series is Harry and his friends figuring out whatever big mystery crops up each year. So Doug coming across as a bit mysterious isn't really a problem. You've already got the Gryffindor group comparing notes on Doug as they try to understand the odd and amazing things he does, so use their PoV to slowly reveal more of Doug's past. I'd be happy if they only get a complete reveal towards the end of the Step, with Harry making the intuitive leap that 'Doug is a superhero from another world' and getting Doug's confirmation while Hermione squawks in outrace over such a nonsensical explanation actually being true.
“I really hope I’m behind this convoluted mess; at least that way I’ll be able to get revenge by doing this to myself. I won’t even have to feel bad because it’ll be all my fault.” - Harry Potter, The Master of Death by Ryuugi.
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#8
Oh, that leap-and-reveal is going to happen a lot faster than that -- within a couple of chapters, in fact, as Doug will be using his metatalent openly in front of the as-yet-unfounded D.A. before Christmas. I wasn't going to short-circuit that with a full reveal earlier, but I wanted at least to have the reader know his name and what he's doing on the Walk before the end of the first chapter. I handled it so much better in the first chapter of DW-S.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#9
When they reach the Room of Requirement, you get a lot of backstory. I think it's fair to string things along until then. But Doug's name is an affordance, as is a basic description of his looks and clothing, and a mention of his motorcycle. You need to give readers basic information they'd get from the environment if they were present in person.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#10
I think it's a bit of a fine line really. You don't want long time readers skipping paragraphs cause they are basically copy/pasted from previous books (I have actually read published series that did that and I often found myself skipping several paragraphs at a time). You want to give enough that new readers get the basic gist and hopefully interest them enough go looking for more, while not boring someone who's read everything previous.  

I think the fact it's a fanfiction  crossover makes it a bit harder. You'll get people who'll be reading one of the stories cause it's crossed into their fandom so they'll want to start there and may not have an initial interest in reading more then the one story so you need to introduce the protagonist to them.

All that said, I'm an amateur reader and this is just my 2 cents.
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#11
Instead of a rewrite is there any scope for adding a prologue?

I'm thinking of something like an expanded mini step.  A safe world (Kiki's delivery service or similar) where Doug just spends a few days just trying gate songs and thinking of past events before stepping through the gate and right into chapter 1.  In my mind I've got the "night of the doctor" mini episode.  A five minute (approx) linking piece between stories rather than a rewrite.  More a deleted/bonus scene rather than a director's cut if I'm not mixing my metaphors.

Mark
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#12
Mm. Given that I already have a prologue on that story -- Ginny and Hermione doing something possibly unwise in a forest with drums and Shin'a'in chants -- I'm not quite sure how I'd make that flow. Plus, in an introspective passage from Doug's POV it would be hard to bring across some of the needed information naturally.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#13
So... how's this sound?

Quote:I still had to answer questions, though -- the first of which
was, "what in Merlin's name was that spell you used to get here?"
I was able to pass that off as unplanned, wild magic -- or
"accidental magic" as they call it here.  (Usually the province
of the under-ten set, but not unheard of in trained wizards put
under serious stress.)  Beyond that, well, since there was no 
point hiding anything -- and since they *were* magic-users 
(however weak) and could possibly help me -- I saw no reason not 
to tell them everything.  

(Well, everything that was relevant.  Even that early on, I was 
certain that the casual integration of magic and technology in my 
home timeline would shock or perhaps even offend them.  It seemed 
an article of faith with these wizards that magic was both better 
than and incompatible with "muggle toys" -- even though my 
careful counter-questioning indicated that they had about as much 
real idea what the non-magical world was like as one of their 
dragons did.  Arrogance born of ignorance.  Gotta love it.)

After a while, but before the questioning was really done, I 
found myself dragged into the preserve's commissary/cookhouse.  
Charlie sat me in a seat and told me to wait while he ducked 
through the obvious kitchen door to get a couple bowls of 
something thick and steaming.  Back at the table he set one down 
in front of me with a spoon, then positioned himself with the 
other on the other side of the table from me.

I looked down to see a stew of some kind.  A long sniff didn't
reveal anything negative, so I shrugged, picked up the spoon, and
dug in.  It turned out to be mutton.

Charlie and I ate in silence for several minutes, then he 
abruptly said, "So, you're some kind of soldier?"

"Mm-hmm," I confirmed around a mouthful of stew.  I swallowed and
added, "Colonel Douglas Sangnoir, United Nations Metahuman 
Peacekeeping Force Warriors Alpha, at your service."  I grinned
at him and saluted, managing to throttle back my inner Benny Hill
just in time to keep it dignified.

He paused at that, spoon halfway between bowl and mouth.  "United 
Nations?"

"Yeah," I said before swallowing another spoon of one of the 
better mutton stews I'd had the pleasure to consume.  "Well,
technically we're paramilitary, but when you're facing an army
nobody on either side is looking at the fine print."  I scooped
up some more stew, but before lifting it to my mouth I noted,
"Of course, if my experiences traveling from universe to universe
are anything to judge by, you probably don't have any kind of
force corresponding to us.  The Warriors are practically unique
among all the versions of Earth I've visited."

Charlie had an odd expression on his face as he replied, "I would
suppose they are."

I shrugged.  "Honestly, it doesn't bother me much.  I've actually
come to prefer worlds where the government isn't recruiting -- or
worse, press-ganging -- super-types like me; it lets me live a 
nice quiet life while I find the next step home."

"I think you're safe on that front," Charlie said with a chuckle.

"The obvious question now is," I said between bites, "what do I 
do with myself next?  Assuming you guys don't turn me in to the 
authorities for being a trespasser on the preserve."

"Well, that depends," Charlie said while tearing off bits of 
bread from the loaf between us, and soaking them in his own 
bowl's gravy.  "Do you support the Dark Lord?"
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#14
Looks good to me.

(One bit of silliness:
Quote:"Do you support the Dark Lord?"
"I'm not a big sports fan.")
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#15
"Sorry, I'm a Manchester United man myself."

:+1: LGTM. I don't have any complaints about that passage, it has Doug's name. And mutton!

Quote:super-types like me
Oh, so he's starting to pick up the superhero terminology?
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#16
(04-30-2018, 04:12 PM)Labster Wrote:
Quote:super-types like me
Oh, so he's starting to pick up the superhero terminology?

A scene in Chapter 2 reveals he's got a t-shirt with the Superman logo, so he's likely run into "the superhero terminology" enough to guess that it may be comprehensible in the HP world as well.  Which, in fact, it wouldn't, except to Muggles and the Muggle-born; Charlie might have looked a bit bewildered at that remark, though Doug evidently didn't notice.
-----
"The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that this was some killer weed."
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#17
That's as good an in-universe explanation as any; in all honesty, it was a deliberate choice on my part to quickly get across what he was to the reader.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
Reply
RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#18
And I've gone ahead and updated the copy of the chapter on the website, so that's done with.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
Reply
RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#19
Bob, you've ruined me for reading fanfic.
Quote:Show me the magic. C'mon. Show me the magic.
— John Cassavetes, Tempest (1982)
I got this far and immediately thought of Bugs Bunny. "You're a sorcerer? C'mon, let me see you sorcer." (Or however the quote goes.)
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#20
That would make a great pull quote for one of the later chapters.

ETA:

Quote:Merlin: How do you do? My name is Merlin. I'm a sorcerer.
Bugs Bunny: Y'are! Really? A sorcerer? Hey, come on, let's see you sauce, huh? Please, huh? Please?
-- from Knightmare Hare
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
Reply
RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#21
(05-03-2018, 07:00 PM)robkelk Wrote: Bob, you've ruined me for reading fanfic.
Quote:Show me the magic. C'mon. Show me the magic.
— John Cassavetes, Tempest (1982)
I got this far and immediately thought of Bugs Bunny. "You're a sorcerer? C'mon, let me see you sorcer." (Or however the quote goes.)

Who was it that wrote a novel about a "sourceror", based around the gimmick that only certain types of people were able to create new types of magic / new spells / whatev? (Thus "source"-eror.)
Sucrose Octanitrate.

Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#22
(05-04-2018, 01:19 PM)ECSNorway Wrote:
(05-03-2018, 07:00 PM)robkelk Wrote: Bob, you've ruined me for reading fanfic.
Quote:Show me the magic. C'mon. Show me the magic.
— John Cassavetes, Tempest (1982)
I got this far and immediately thought of Bugs Bunny. "You're a sorcerer? C'mon, let me see you sorcer." (Or however the quote goes.)

Who was it that wrote a novel about a "sourceror", based around the gimmick that only certain types of people were able to create new types of magic / new spells / whatev? (Thus "source"-eror.)

Terry Pratchett's Sourcery is what you're thinking of, I believe.
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#23
(05-04-2018, 02:32 PM)NifT Wrote:
(05-04-2018, 01:19 PM)ECSNorway Wrote:
(05-03-2018, 07:00 PM)robkelk Wrote: Bob, you've ruined me for reading fanfic.
Quote:Show me the magic. C'mon. Show me the magic.
— John Cassavetes, Tempest (1982)
I got this far and immediately thought of Bugs Bunny. "You're a sorcerer? C'mon, let me see you sorcer." (Or however the quote goes.)

Who was it that wrote a novel about a "sourceror", based around the gimmick that only certain types of people were able to create new types of magic / new spells / whatev? (Thus "source"-eror.)

Terry Pratchett's Sourcery is what you're thinking of, I believe.

I believe the line went "The seventh son of a seventh son.  A wizard squared.  A Sourcerer."
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RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#24
(05-05-2018, 01:04 PM)Norgarth Wrote:
(05-04-2018, 02:32 PM)NifT Wrote:
(05-04-2018, 01:19 PM)ECSNorway Wrote:
(05-03-2018, 07:00 PM)robkelk Wrote: Bob, you've ruined me for reading fanfic.
Quote:Show me the magic. C'mon. Show me the magic.
— John Cassavetes, Tempest (1982)
I got this far and immediately thought of Bugs Bunny. "You're a sorcerer? C'mon, let me see you sorcer." (Or however the quote goes.)

Who was it that wrote a novel about a "sourceror", based around the gimmick that only certain types of people were able to create new types of magic / new spells / whatev? (Thus "source"-eror.)

Terry Pratchett's Sourcery is what you're thinking of, I believe.

I believe the line went "The seventh son of a seventh son.  A wizard squared.  A Sourcerer."
Almost.  On the Discworld, they're big on eight as the mystical number, so the eighth son of an eighth son is a wizard ... and the eighth son of a wizard is a sourcerer, a source of magic rather than one who taps ambient magic.  Somewhere in the text, it's specified that preventing these is one of the main reasons wizards are encouraged to be celibate.
-----
"The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that this was some killer weed."
Reply
RE: Thinking about rewrites...
#25
(05-05-2018, 02:41 PM)DHBirr Wrote:
(05-05-2018, 01:04 PM)Norgarth Wrote:
(05-04-2018, 02:32 PM)NifT Wrote:
(05-04-2018, 01:19 PM)ECSNorway Wrote:
(05-03-2018, 07:00 PM)robkelk Wrote: Bob, you've ruined me for reading fanfic.
I got this far and immediately thought of Bugs Bunny. "You're a sorcerer? C'mon, let me see you sorcer." (Or however the quote goes.)

Who was it that wrote a novel about a "sourceror", based around the gimmick that only certain types of people were able to create new types of magic / new spells / whatev? (Thus "source"-eror.)

Terry Pratchett's Sourcery is what you're thinking of, I believe.

I believe the line went "The seventh son of a seventh son.  A wizard squared.  A Sourcerer."
Almost.  On the Discworld, they're big on eight as the mystical number, so the eighth son of an eighth son is a wizard ... and the eighth son of a wizard is a sourcerer, a source of magic rather than one who taps ambient magic.  Somewhere in the text, it's specified that preventing these is one of the main reasons wizards are encouraged to be celibate.

Ah yes, forgot that detail.
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