Its really a matter of what they want to do...
showing flag? They already have a large space station and the Stingray...
securing their borders (Earth orbit)? A few small ships could easily do this.
projecting military power to different parts of the solar system? Thats where the battleships/carriers will be needed for. And what will raise the most problems with the Fen.
Posts: 2,125
Threads: 117
Joined: Aug 2003
Reputation:
0
For dealing with piracy and smuggling, you'll need patrol boats. Battleships and Aircraft Carriers are for parking just off the coast to send a loud message that "We Are Not Amused" . . . or war.
Given how . . . flaky . . . fen are and how dangerous being able to drop rocks from orbit is, it'd be entirely reasonable for the US government to want to be able to dominate space if necessary - but this would significantly affect the setting.
Chipping in a bit late on this, but what the hell. Oh, and I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm just trying to explain why I don't like the idea in enough detail to be understood.
Speaking out of character, I'm concerned by the idea of governments raising heavy combatants. It seems like either you have to dig up enough borderline fendanes to crew the things, put up with the massive quirks, so on and so forth... and it was seeming to be pretty much a huge stretch to do that on the USS Stingray, and look how that turned out... or you have to say that the governments don't have to obey such.
If you're not cringing a little by now already, sort of consider that a huge part of why many of our characters came up is to escape the ability of various groundbound governments or other organizations to exert control over us. Now if the various dirtside governments are managing to 'wave and crew more effective combat forces than we have available... well, what's the point of us having left? I mean, if there's a pair of heavy duty capital ships, with presumed escort and light craft to make a proper battlegroup, in space... as I see it there's one of three real options. Either they're not very effective at projecting force (in which case why bother) they're sufficiently effective at projecting force we're all under their thumb if they choose to (sure they may not choose to, but it's still a 'freedom which can be revoked at any time' thing) or we're at open war with them. None of those sounds all that fun. You could argue that other nations launching their own capital ships would nullify it, etc etc... but then we're at a situation where the big power centers are the dirtside nations, while the rest of us are scrambling around for scraps. Which doesn't seem appealing to me either.
Speaking from the POV of my character, I think he'd be thinking hard about KKVs before the capital ships were fully 'waved, and damn the consequences. Which would be more or less open war, yes. Maybe an interesting story to write, but not really what we're going for, I don't think.
Anyway, my two cents and somewhat of a kneejerk one at that... my views are my own, yadda yadda yadda.
I think KJs posting gave me a funny idea.
Not sure we want it in Fenspace, but it would work better than the "three Battleship" idea.
What if one old superpower on Earth waves a large military ship, only to discover that they got at least at much nasty quirks per square inch as the first generation Fen hardware.
Now we suddenly have a huge and incredible expensive ship that the owner is to proud to scrap which is NOT able to do a job in "projecting force" at all because they have enough problems running straight. It might provide the other military organizations on Earth with a good example why NOT to do a project like this.
Example quirk: "When starting the engine, the crew has to sing the song 'in the navy'. All of them."
(normally not a problem, but when you have a crew of 2000 it becomes one  )
(edit: this is not really a serious suggestion how we should do it, but I think it was funny enough to share it)
Posts: 588
Threads: 48
Joined: Apr 2010
Reputation:
0
Given that KJ's points are all valid, I think your joke suggestion has some real merit.
We need a new story category... "The tales that never happened". *G*
One of them with the VVS organized sabotage of the new waved supercarrier "USS Enterprise"...
In the end the US finished the project... but unfortunately some of their Handwavium batches got contaminated.
So now they have a Bubble Gum Crisis like bridge with an AI that hates singing, an engine room with an AI that speaks only Russian. And a sublight engine that only starts when the crew sings 'in the navy'.
After two years of space trials and 4 captains (two transfered on demand, one retired after three weeks, one shot himself) they are still trying to tell the Congress that it was a "success"...
Posts: 219
Threads: 13
Joined: Aug 2010
Reputation:
0
HRogge Wrote:We need a new story category... "The tales that never happened". *G*
One of them with the VVS organized sabotage of the new waved supercarrier "USS Enterprise"...
In the end the US finished the project... but unfortunately some of their Handwavium batches got contaminated.
So now they have a Bubble Gum Crisis like bridge with an AI that hates singing, an engine room with an AI that speaks only Russian. And a sublight engine that only starts when the crew sings 'in the navy'.
After two years of space trials and 4 captains (two transfered on demand, one retired after three weeks, one shot himself) they are still trying to tell the Congress that it was a "success"... Doesn't have to be a US ship.
The other is that it could be a leaked on paper only navel study. Something to explain the issue of why just slapping wave on a ship isn't a good idea to the Admirals. Thus goes for the most bizarre and bad quirks the authors could find out about or think of. Thus it could exist in mainstream fenspace as something rather funny that gets past around.
_______________________________________________________________
Characters
Sabre Fang
Dakota
Warning:
Dihydrogen monoxide
Containment Vessel
Posts: 8,933
Threads: 386
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
3
Eh. Once the quirks become evident, the USN would not be so foolhardy as to just stick any old line officer in command of the thing. And then they'd only assign someone who's got a crazy-awesome sense of humor. Trust me, there is absolutely NO shortage of this in the USN. I mean, we got Captains and Commanders that still like to do drag racing using DDGs and CGs! And that's to say nothing about the Crossing The Line ceremonies...
Literally, on one of my CO's Friday Briefs, where the possibility of going south of the Equator was brought up: "Oh, and CMC, make a note: this'll be the XO's first time, too. He's a dirty wog!" The entire crew, Chief's Mess, and Wardroom starts cracking up and the XO suffers a grin and bear it moment.
But seriously, if something like that did happen and they lost four COs over it, then it would be a serious case of either "Your doing it wrong," or "Another Attempt to Micromanage The USN by Congress" and not something the USN would permit to happen again. Besides, all us sailors know Murphy Was A Squid.
Oh, and if anything, I think the whole damn thing (USN Comes To Fenspace) is gonna look like John Ringo and Travis S. Taylor's Looking Glass series.
Posts: 4,794
Threads: 299
Joined: Jul 2010
Reputation:
8
Raymond Garret stared at the grey bulk as it passed alongside.
"Good Jaysus," he muttered. "That's big,"
It was chased by the creeping realisation that the SS Ciara weighed, at most, 700 tons. That big destroyer at a guess would have to be ten times that. They pulled up alongside, taking station only a few hundred metres off of the Ciara's starboard side. It was alarmingly close. Even the bulk-ore carriers were separated by kilometres. Anne Devlin had her binoculars out, getting a good look at the big ship with her own two eyes. Long, angular and brutal, sprouting radomes like tumours across the top of the superstructure, each one complimented by it's own whiskery antennae. It was obvious they'd also learned the lesson about the bottom's of converted ships being a weak point. The number '61' was painted in harsh white along the forward section, while a US flag flew high on the mass. Somehow, it even managed to flutter.
"Looks like the sort of ship Unit 02 played hopscotch with in Evangelion," she said. "Crunch"
Someone laughed. It died quickly. Meg's comm panel chirruped, breaking open the tense silence that followed. "They're sending us a message," she said, just a little unnerved.
"What is it?" Garret asked.
"Um... From Captain Harrison of USS Ramage, to Commander Space Vessel Ciara. On behalf of my crew and the United States Navy as a whole, we offer our warmest regards to you, your ship and her crew. We look forward to working alongside you to ensure the safety and security of trade between our Great Nation and the people's of Fenspace in the spirit of cooperation and friendship." she paused, then appeared to zoom in to the message on her screen. "Oh, and they'd like to know if we'd be interested in a little drag race between our two ships."
"That first part had me worried," Anne said with a snort, "But it looks like we're actually dealing with human being here," She smirked, baring those two great fangs of hers, the grin of a tiger who'd found her prey. "Let's show 'em a clean pair of heels,"
EDIT: Typofix... and yes, I did specifically look that up.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
Posts: 8,933
Threads: 386
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
3
Carriers. Slow to get off the line, but boy howdy, do they ever haul ass once they get their steam up! You know, they've never really declassified how fast one of those things can really go.
Posts: 219
Threads: 13
Joined: Aug 2010
Reputation:
0
blackaeronaut Wrote:Eh. Once the quirks become evident, the USN would not be so foolhardy as to just stick any old line officer in command of the thing. And then they'd only assign someone who's got a crazy-awesome sense of humor. Trust me, there is absolutely NO shortage of this in the USN. I mean, we got Captains and Commanders that still like to do drag racing using DDGs and CGs! And that's to say nothing about the Crossing The Line ceremonies...
Literally, on one of my CO's Friday Briefs, where the possibility of going south of the Equator was brought up: "Oh, and CMC, make a note: this'll be the XO's first time, too. He's a dirty wog!" The entire crew, Chief's Mess, and Wardroom starts cracking up and the XO suffers a grin and bear it moment.
But seriously, if something like that did happen and they lost four COs over it, then it would be a serious case of either "Your doing it wrong," or "Another Attempt to Micromanage The USN by Congress" and not something the USN would permit to happen again. Besides, all us sailors know Murphy Was A Squid.
Oh, and if anything, I think the whole damn thing (USN Comes To Fenspace) is gonna look like John Ringo and Travis S. Taylor's Looking Glass series. You totally know they'll modify the Crossing the Line ceremonies into a space version.
_______________________________________________________________
Characters
Sabre Fang
Dakota
Warning:
Dihydrogen monoxide
Containment Vessel
Posts: 3,278
Threads: 137
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
2
Well DUH. Squidz is Squidz!
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children
Posts: 2,602
Threads: 109
Joined: Oct 2002
Reputation:
2
I wouldn't be surprised if the USAF eventually got in on the game as well. Strategic Bombers like the B-52 and the B-2 have atmospheric seals to begin with. And no doubt the flyboys will remind anyone who forgets that every astronaut pilot and mission commander that NASA has put up in the Black is Air Force first. I see a weird scene of the U.S.S. Roosevelt racing a B-52 Stratofortress to Kandor and back.
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com
"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."
Ebony Wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the USAF eventually got in on the game as well. Strategic Bombers like the B-52 and the B-2 have atmospheric seals to begin with. And no doubt the flyboys will remind anyone who forgets that every astronaut pilot and mission commander that NASA has put up in the Black is Air Force first. I see a weird scene of the U.S.S. Roosevelt racing a B-52 Stratofortress to Kandor and back. Isn't the Benjamin Franklin Station partly an airforce base?
I remember even reading about waved fighters in the US somewhere in a wiki story (in 2014/2015)
Posts: 2,602
Threads: 109
Joined: Oct 2002
Reputation:
2
HRogge Wrote:Ebony Wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the USAF eventually got in on the game as well. Strategic Bombers like the B-52 and the B-2 have atmospheric seals to begin with. And no doubt the flyboys will remind anyone who forgets that every astronaut pilot and mission commander that NASA has put up in the Black is Air Force first. I see a weird scene of the U.S.S. Roosevelt racing a B-52 Stratofortress to Kandor and back. Isn't the Benjamin Franklin Station partly an airforce base?
I remember even reading about waved fighters in the US somewhere in a wiki story (in 2014/2015) Well, you know that, sooner or later, the Brits are going to get Danny Boy Squadron up in the air.
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com
"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."
Posts: 24,884
Threads: 2,045
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation:
12
Dakota Wrote:blackaeronaut Wrote:Eh. Once the quirks become evident, the USN would not be so foolhardy as to just stick any old line officer in command of the thing. And then they'd only assign someone who's got a crazy-awesome sense of humor. Trust me, there is absolutely NO shortage of this in the USN. I mean, we got Captains and Commanders that still like to do drag racing using DDGs and CGs! And that's to say nothing about the Crossing The Line ceremonies...
Literally, on one of my CO's Friday Briefs, where the possibility of going south of the Equator was brought up: "Oh, and CMC, make a note: this'll be the XO's first time, too. He's a dirty wog!" The entire crew, Chief's Mess, and Wardroom starts cracking up and the XO suffers a grin and bear it moment.
But seriously, if something like that did happen and they lost four COs over it, then it would be a serious case of either "Your doing it wrong," or "Another Attempt to Micromanage The USN by Congress" and not something the USN would permit to happen again. Besides, all us sailors know Murphy Was A Squid.
Oh, and if anything, I think the whole damn thing (USN Comes To Fenspace) is gonna look like John Ringo and Travis S. Taylor's Looking Glass series. You totally know they'll modify the Crossing the Line ceremonies into a space version. "Oh, and this'll be the XO's first mission past Lunar orbit, too. He's a dirty ground-pounder!"
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Ebony Wrote:Well, you know that, sooner or later, the Brits are going to get Danny Boy Squadron up in the air.
That sounds more like a job for a British Fen than something governmental.
Posts: 3,278
Threads: 137
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
2
"Oh Danny boys, the stars, the stars are call all ing...."
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children
Posts: 8,933
Threads: 386
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
3
They'd be the Whovian's militia, flying 'waved Spitfires, much to Ben's amusement.  Maybe someone should 'wave some P-38 Lightnings for them so they'll have heavy fighter support.
Posts: 24,884
Threads: 2,045
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation:
12
blackaeronaut Wrote:They'd be the Whovian's militia ... Is there no love for U.N.I.T. any more?
(Or for Torchwood, the Whovians' version of Section 9?)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Posts: 8,933
Threads: 386
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
3
robkelk Wrote:Is there no love for U.N.I.T. any more?
(Or for Torchwood, the Whovians' version of Section 9?) Sorry folks. That should be, "The Danny Boys could be the starfighter element of U.N.I.T. with Torchwood providing inteligence and clandestine ops."
Posts: 24,884
Threads: 2,045
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation:
12
blackaeronaut Wrote:robkelk Wrote:Is there no love for U.N.I.T. any more?
(Or for Torchwood, the Whovians' version of Section 9?) Sorry folks. That should be, "The Danny Boys could be the starfighter element of U.N.I.T. with Torchwood providing inteligence and clandestine ops."
I just put this on http://www.fenspace.net/index.php5?title=Timelords:
The Whovians' militia, '''U.N.I.T.''', uses the NATO grade structure with the British Army names for ranking their forces. They have a small headquarters element and a recruiting office in The Citadel of the Time Lords, maintain a liaison office with [[Great Justice] on [[Arisia Station], and rent hangar space from [[the Roughriders] for their single squadron of 'waved Spitfires; they otherwise do not have any standing forces.
While the Timelords contract with the [[Space Patrol] to police 3325 TARDIS, the faction's '''Torchwood''' group serves the same role as the Patrol's Section 6.And, some rumours claim, Section 9.
(And now I have to log off. The real world calls - I'm going to go take some photos and finally meet SkyKnight face-to-face...)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Posts: 27,161
Threads: 2,254
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
21
Quote:and finally meet SkyKnight face-to-face...
Trust him, he knows what he's doing.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Posts: 2,217
Threads: 167
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
1
Quote:Trust him, he knows what he's doing.
That's precisely what would worry me.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery
FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information
"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
Posts: 24,884
Threads: 2,045
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation:
12
So, Mal, you're Doreau to Bob's Sledge? [size=smaller](pointedly ignores the copies of Bubblegum Zone on the HDD)[/size]
(And SkyKnight did know what he was doing - he decided to head home early, while I went off to a historical site that really wasn't worth the visit. Mind you, he had farther to go than I did...)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
|
