University of Michigan-Dearborn plans foot-washing stations

[Morganite]

I'm tired, so I won't be saying much more tonight, but there is one thing...

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I can see that I've upset some regular posters here and that was not my desire at all. I saw a discussion of something I wrote and thought I would join in. Enjoy your forums, I'll keep my unwelcome comments out of it.

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Bah! This section of the forum is intended for us to come in and annoy each other! '.'
-Morgan, is the sort of person who imagines interesting uses for Clow Cards. '.'"Mikuru-chan molested me! I'm... so happy!"
-Haruhi, "The Ecchi of Haruhi Suzumiya"
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[Ayiekie]

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I'm quite sure the soccer team will not be allowed to wash their feet there!

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Of course, you're dead wrong about that, as a casual perusal on the articles about the issue would have informed you. Like everyone else in this thread did.

[Fidoohki]

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Of course, you're dead wrong about that, as a casual
perusal on the articles about the issue would have informed
you. Like everyone else in this thread did.

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Provided they follow through. Which I hope is the case. The
real test will be when someone of a non-muslim bearings
uses it as was intended with no malice. The reaction will tell

[hmelton]

Ayiekie
That's fine I'm not angry with you for thinking the article had hatred, I don't see hated just a justifiable anger at yet another example of the ACLU's double standard.
As a Christian I'm fairly closed minded on many issues and yet I seem to be far more willing than you to admit that your position and view has at least some level of validity and usefulness. I'm of the view that there is always some value to other peoples positions and opinions even when they disagree strongly with my position and opinon.
Ayiekie it seems that in most any political discussion that it has to be your opinion or the person is "contemptable" or some other suitably terrible thing for not having your opinion and position on an issue.
You like so many other liberial and athiest I listen to appear to be far more narrow minded than I am as a christian and rarely if ever find value in opinions that disagree with the liberal point of view or opinion.
I rarely agree with you, the ACLU, liberals or athiest and yet I still value all your opinions even if you don't value mine and only have room in your world view to think I'm contemptable for my opinions.
I do find it odd that liberals which often claim to have such open minds have so little room to entertain the opinions and ideas of other groups especially the opinions of conservatives or christians.

Logan
Good article I enjoyed it and with the exception of you reaching a little bit with the link to a money trail that leds to muslim donations I think your article does a good job of highlighting what the ACLU started as and has been slipping deeper into for years.
I think you are justified in your anger at the ACLU and I don't classify that anger as hate.
Thier non-action on the foot washing isn't the only example of thier dislike and bias against conservative ideals and christianity.
I've watched ACLU court cases for years and it always struck me how in general, admittly with a several exceptions they target conservative and christian ideas and values.
I've watched how thier focus on the seperation of church and state seems to be blind to the existance of other religions or as the Athiest often insist on calling them myths and fairy tales.
I can't think of the number of school houses and court houses I've seen on TV where some christian Icon is being removed to honor the ACLU's idea of seperation of church and state, while in the background other religious myths and fairy tale icons remained.
Isn't it odd that in many scenes where a court house is shown it is only the Christian religious Icons and qoutes that are being removed.
If the ACLU was truly worried about the seperation of religion and state as they claim why aren't they fighting to force the government to take down the statues of Greek and Roman gods and the quotes from those nearly dead religions?
Why aren't the ACLU's Athiest bringing court cases against the Greek and Roman religous myths that figure large in the design of most court house and many schools. After all the statues and quotes from that religion should be as damaging to them as the Chirstian Icons and quotes.
howard melton

[Ayiekie]

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Ayiekie it seems that in most any political discussion that it has to be your opinion or the person is "contemptable" or some other suitably terrible thing for not having your opinion and position on an issue.

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Did you notice that when I gave my opinion on the actual issue at the beginning of this thread? No? Or that, for instance, I'm one of the more conciliatory "liberal atheists" (because, of course, you have to apply a label to someone's opinions instead of considering them on a case by case basis) every time the question of religion comes up on this board.
Given that, maybe you might consider that there is a difference between not sharing my opinion on an issue and holding a position I consider unjustifiable by any moral standard.
I don't have a lot of empathy for the opinions of bigots, either. I respect your right to voice your opinion; that does not mean every opinion deserves tolerance. Hatred of the ACLU is something that has never had a shred of moral justification and inevitably speaks badly of the character of the person who holds it, just like bigotry.
Now, I really am done with this discussion.

[Epsilon]

A footnote concerning this apparent "anti-christian" bias of the ACLU.
www.aclufightsforchristians.com/
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Epsilon

[Fidoohki]

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A footnote concerning this apparent "anti-christian" bias of the ACLU.

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Umm you might want to check those sites since one was
the right of the KKK to burn crosses and another was for the
rights of those morons that protested soldier's funerals with
anti gay slurs. And the majority of the rest are pre 2000. There are a few that are 'pro-christian' and recent but no where near as much as the statement claims.

[Sirrocco]

It is only very rarely that Christians find their essential civil liberties threatened in this country. Often, when they do, it is because they *are* deep-fringe freaks to the point that the majority of Christians would claim "these are not Christians". It doesn't matter. The ACLU fights to ensure that our basic civil liberties are protected.
As a codocil, the point on the ACLU being "anti-Christian". Note that it is never the liberal, laid-back Christians that say this. It is always the deep, fundamentalist, often born-again conservative Christians. It's true, these people have many political views, goals, and policies that they derive from their Christian faith, and they are in this, time and time again, opposed by the ACLU, because those very same views, goals, and policies conflict with or threaten the civil rights of others.
The real issue is that both sides are acting morally, to the best of their ability. Conservative Christianity takes as a given that everyone who dies without accepting Jesus Christ into their lives as Savior will burn forever in Hell, and incidentally make God (the creator of all things, and source of all goodness int he world) Sad. The ACLU considers this to be one theory among many, and not one with particularly large amounts of evidence behind it. Belief in the aforementioned has enormous moral implications in terms of what is right and acceptable, and naturally leads those that follow it to attempt to convert everyone they can, by pretty much any means that they think will be effective that are not inherently prohibited by their faith. Those actions, in turn, threaten the civil rights of others, which means that the ACLU (with its own internal imperative to protect the civil rights of others) naturally opposes them, and pretty rapidly acquires a reputation as an enemy of Christianity - particularly in places where the Conservative Christians have enough coverage of the population to fill significant numbers of political positions with those that agree with them.
This is not the whole story. It is true that various forms of political drift have led the Republicans to tend to oppress civil rights more often than the democrats, and the conservatives to align with the republicans, and the democrats with the liberals, and the ACLU to get fewer Conservative Christian volunteers, and more volunteers from the groups that feel threatened by said Conservative Christians (who, in turn, tend to be liberal) and that over time this does color their perceptions - they do tend to see the concept of "civil liberties" through a generally liberal lens, because the people who they have working for them tend to be liberal, but that is the smaller of the two effects, and one that they do *try* to control for. It's also one, I'm sure, that they'd prefer not to have to deal with at all. The liberal politicians are delighted that the ACLU supports them and harasses their foes more often than the other way around, but I guarantee that the ACLU itself would *much* prefer to be bipartisan.
(Indeed, I was at an ACLU rally recently, calling for the return of Habeus Corpus. We had one speaker from a fairly important conservative political group, who made a speech about how Habeus Corpus was one of the good old-time conservative values rights that made our country great. We were delighted to have him. We wished we'd had more like him.)

[hmelton]

As I said in another post I'm back, my ISP finally seems to be stable again. My email is working and I'm finally getting to stay on line for more than a minute.
ACLU's home page
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www.aclu.org/
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I've agreed with the ACLU several times on issues. These areas of agreement have been almost exclusively in areas that are non-religious.
I stand by my statement that the ACLU are very VERY biased against christianity and in my opinion in the last few years they seem to be taking a stand against traditional American values.
Here is just one recent example of a harassment of christians by the ACLU. I've seen dozens of cases a year like this nation wide and every case the ACLU ignore the equally prominant representations of other religions on the court houses and schools.
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blog.nola.com/updates/200..._draw.html
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The below link is to another group of lawyers that often find themselves opposing the ACLU especially in christain cases.
Like the ACLJ I think Abortion on demand is simply MURDER on demand and that the constitution doesn't forbid christian Icons and ideas anymore than it forbids Greek and roman religous icons and ideas.
Like the ACLJ I can't find the concept of "Seperation of Church and State" anywhere in the constitution or the writings of our finding fathers.
ACLJ's home page
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www.aclj.org/Default.aspx
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My favorite Athiest blogger and several of his blogs.
I check his sites regularly... Actually thinking about I go to these linkmore than I come to the threads and topics on this site.
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snorphty.blogspot.com/
antigreen.blogspot.com/
dissectleft.blogspot.com/
pcwatch.blogspot.com/
gunwatch.blogspot.com/
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This site probably isn't quite what the link will suggests to most people. Also be warned it often has subjects in other languages.
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www.judeoscope.ca/
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This site will probably irritate those who like Mr. Gore's movie and those who believe that controlling CO2 other industrial emissions will give humanity control of global weather.
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www.junkscience.com/
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howard melton

[Rev Dark]

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Like the ACLJ I can't find the concept of "Seperation of Church and State" anywhere in the constitution or the writings of our finding fathers.

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Cough! Virginia Statue for Religious Freedom! Cough! Hack! Thomas Jefferson Cough!